Thoughts on MGTOW

[Simon Zackrisson]

On 3/19/2018 at 3:30 PM, WildeChilde said:

I'll go ahead and "come out of the closet".  

I'm a MGTOW and have been decidedly one for around 4 to 5 years.  I say decidedly because I already had a MGTOW lifestyle before I learned about the philosophy, terminology, community, etc.  

Just like spirituality, I think men come to MGTOW for different reasons.  Some men were treated poorly in relationships, so they come in with a lot of hurt.  Some men never find much success with women, so they come in looking for an excuse to stay out of the game.  Some men simply enjoy the freedom of being single while avoiding all of the problems associated with marriage and long-term relationships.  This is where I’ve always found myself.  I love women, but I have one life.  I simply cannot be tied down.  

I shared this video with another user not too long ago on this very topic. 

 

Damn Osho can be such a sweet cat, man. my bullshit meter goes out the roof usually with gurus like this, but I really appreciate this one's seemingly sincerity, coherence, and just his fucking look in his face is pleasant and quite amusing to watch .  ^^

He is reality , he has become everything , his brain is now in tune with universal intelligence. it seems. 

 

and no matter what, its still an interesting perspective . ^^

[SFRL]

1 hour ago, Simon Zackrisson said:

I recently came into contact with these perspectives.

I love it, but it also gives me a bitter taste.

 

I don't at all really resonate with the sharpness of its weapons.

Like, I've been into RSD and shit before, not to say I've been at all ignoring the less charming aspects of female psychology before
I do love to see as many perspectives as possible

And I think its FUCKING CRUCIAL to be aware of the essentials of what like mgtow and such speak about . 

But i dont resonate with like the hatred, i maybe still be naive, but i think i will still want to choose to love and appreciate women, feminine energy

my current idea is that its possible to choose to be the nice guy, as long as you TRULY are the wolf too, and have it deadset under control and understand what pathetic scenarios it might spiral into if you do not pay attention .

Pretty much 

[Shroomer]

Do you think this might be true in real life too or only on tinder and okcupid?

Kind of depressing. Might still find a woman from some spiritual group I guess...

[SFRL]

Honestly I think women can have a tough time as well but in other ways. 

Guys for instance seem less likely to be willing to seriously date a woman with kids. 

But women seem more open to that. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by SFRL

[SFRL]

59 minutes ago, Shroomer said:

Do you think this might be true in real life too or only on tinder and okcupid?

Kind of depressing. Might still find a woman from some spiritual group I guess...

Why would it be different in a spiritual group?

[Simon Zackrisson]

@Shroomer could you try to explain, in your words, exactly what this video means? 

I'm nothing other then a drunk mentally challenged 5-year old when it comes to mathematics and numbers and graphs . 

 

EDIT - 

Basically that women have higher perceived self-value, then men? making it into an unbalanced equation, ever tipped in the favor for women? Even though they emotionally suffer in this scenario as well .

Edited March 23, 2018 by Simon Zackrisson

[Shroomer]

Spiritual people might be more aware or something... but yeah if it's biology than that's that.

I feel upset because I think Im in a similiar situation right now. Knowing this is more painful for me compared to the woman who is unaware of this.

[WildeChilde]

Cassie Jaye is an award-winning filmmaker who made a documentary a few years back on the MRA, MGTOW, and similar groups.  She did a Ted talk not to long ago talking about it and the changes she underwent.  

 

 

If you're too lazy to watch the whole thing , then just start it at 12:28 and watch the rest.

[Steph1988]

10 hours ago, Simon Zackrisson said:

And I think its FUCKING CRUCIAL to be aware of the essentials of what like mgtow and such speak about . 

But i dont resonate with like the hatred, i maybe still be naive, but i think i will still want to choose to love and appreciate women, feminine energy

I would agree with that and for me it knowing why things are the way they are makes me less angry actually.

In addition i always try to get the perspective of butt hurt guys as well, i don't resonate with it but i still want to hear it because i want to hear all sides, there is always useful information everywhere but u don't have to identify with it.

I don't like the word butt hurt actually, i don't know what people have been thru and it is not wrong to be angry there are lots of good reasons to be angry but then it would be a matter of ultimately dealing with it in a productive way and or finally accepting things the way they are, then start to improve yourself as u can only control yourself.

It is not bad sometimes to immerse yourself in negativity and read real dark stuff, it makes u wiser iv'e read the breivik manifesto, the unabomber manifesto and parts of mein kampf not that i want to compare that to MGTOW ofc but i just want to say it is interesting and useful to read stuff really angry people wrote and not close yourself off to it.

[Simon Zackrisson]

@WildeChilde fucking love these beautiful things

i mean i wish we could just come together as a species and operate out of love.

 

stupid fucking naive feeling when you consider the real life everyday situations and how deeply entrenched evolutionary instincts are within us

but you have to start somewhere, and progress

And i refuse to give in to despair and defeatism, lets evolve as a race together .   <3 

[Simon Zackrisson]

@Steph1988 you can never lose in being exposed and understanding different perspectives
Even if some are ruthless and harsh, imagine how bad they would be if they weren't uncovered and clearly looked at, but allowed to fester and infectiously spread in the dark.

 

But optimism and positivity is what will give your sails wind in the long run .  

[WildeChilde]

@Simon Zackrisson Yeah man never give up.  If marriage and a family is what you want, that's great; just take your time, and be smart about it.  From the 4-5 years I've studied this stuff, here is what you need to consider with regard to a potential mate.  Some of these are going to be difficult to acquire from her and others in her social circle, but be persistent.  It's necessary for your psychological health and your wallet:

Quality of relationship w/ father

If she was raised by a single mother

Why her previous relationships ended

# of Previous Sexual Partners

History of infidelity

STDs

Dietary/Exercise Habits

Current Weight

Nagging Issues

Impulsivity

Overall intelligence/IQ

What kind of friends she has

Long-term goals

and

the most important one...

 

spending habits

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by WildeChilde

[SFRL]

8 hours ago, Shroomer said:

Spiritual people might be more aware or something... but yeah if it's biology than that's that.

I feel upset because I think Im in a similiar situation right now. Knowing this is more painful for me compared to the woman who is unaware of this.

Ideally yeah.....in reality probably not so much. 

[SFRL]

Now honestly would you rather be a chick, since they presumably got it so much easier?

I can come up with plenty of reasons I wouldn't want to be a chick. 

Pros and cons but I much rather be a guy. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by SFRL

[Shroomer]

4 hours ago, brovakhiin said:

as a man you have the option of learning game

Does learning the game mean learning how to manipulate women? I fucking despise lies and manipulations and just want to be myself

[Simon Zackrisson]

@Shroomer Yes.

Sorry, but at the moment you sound a bit like a cucked beta guy .

Trust me though, so many guys have had this feeling you have, 

 

I'd also like to put forward the proposition that you are engaged in manipulation in every single interaction you do, even if you are aware of it or not. It's also a shame that the general mass of people associate manipulating with a necessary evil. That is incorrect. There is such a thing as positive manipulation.

 

For example, if you are having a bad day, are you always honest about this, and inspiring others to feel the same, or do you lie and attempt to not bring others down in negative thinking as well? If you have a friend that has a bad day, do you attempt to make him feel better (manipulation) or are you "honest" and just let him stay in this sadness? If someone asks your opinion of something creative you dont like, do you spill out all your negative emotions unfiltered and destroy their confidence by just giving "honest" perspectives.

 

Is it bad manipulation to give a cat a piece of yarn to play with, even though you might think it should like to play with a bone?

Is it bad manipulation to treat girls how their emotional wiring is designed to give them good feelings, or would you prefer to selfishly just have the interaction go as how you'd like it to be?

 

 

 i know its not easy always man, we all been there i think

[SFRL]

5 hours ago, Shroomer said:

Does learning the game mean learning how to manipulate women? I fucking despise lies and manipulations and just want to be myself

Game is about raising your perceived value. 

You have to understand there is Actual value and there is Perceived value. 

Actual value is the value you actually have as a guy. Perceived value is the value she thinks you have. 

A lot of guys do have pretty good Actual Value. But they are terrible at convincing women about that. So their perceived value in the eyes of these women is low. Those women would actually get convinced about this guys Actual value if they spend a lot of time with him. But because they perceive his value as low it will never get to that point. 

On the other hand there are the 'Players'. These guys don't actually have a lot of value to offer. Like no job, no education, no promising career, etc. Their Actual Value is low. But they are really good at faking high value right from the moment they meet a woman. Therefore the woman will perceive their value as high. At first at least. And she will have sex with the 'Player'. Over time she may find out that the 'Player' type is not as great as he initially sold himself to be. 

 

What you want is to learn game so you can raise your Perceived value right from the start as well. 

If you have above average Actual Value then your Perceived Value in her eyes should be above average as well. Otherwise you are selling yourself short. 

As long as your Perceived Value is equal to your Absolute value you are not deceiving anyone. You are simply being assertive. 

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by SFRL

[AxelK]

Seems like just another one of all these victim mentality groups.

 

Has life become harder for men than it was 50 years ago? Is it harder to get a quality partner now than before? Perhaps. But is the answer to that to chicken out, run away and become bitter towards women because you couldn't handle life changing?

 

Truly want to be alone? That's great if you love your own company.

Blaming everyone else because you are alone, joining a movement about it and whining about it being someones elses fault? Nah

Edited March 23, 2018 by AxelK

[Steph1988]

@SFRL I liked that post!

What about a guy who has neither actual value or perceived value? seems to me as long as he doesn't have real social anxiety he should first raise his real value up to a reasonable standard and then tackle the perceived value.

A sales talk is easier to give when your product is good right ?

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Steph1988

[nectar]

I don’t know much about it but this group and the other extreme feminists, are not something I think healthy, balanced people should associate with. They tend to be too focused on negatives. You can’t get anywhere just being a big whiney baby about everything that’s wrong with the other sex. Focus your energy on something more productive.