Criticism of the Quantum Mechanics Video I found on reddit

[Dino D]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The paradox is, if your #1 priority is happiness, you will never reach enlightenment.

Your #1 priority must be truth. Then, as you go down the rabbit hole of truth, it will end up killing you, and then happiness will dawn.

Happiness is incompatible with being a "you". That's problem. You want happiness, but to get happiness, you must first die. But the whole reason you're unhappy in the first place is because you're busy avoiding death.

So you say you want happiness, but to get it, you will have go through the thing you fear the most.

Which is why it's best to pursue enlightenment not for happiness, but for truth. Because you will have to surrender your notions of personal happiness to get to true happiness. What you currently think of as happiness isn't true happiness, which is why you're unhappy with it! If what you thought was happiness was real happiness, you'd be happy by now and this whole conversation would be moot. You wouldn't be here looking at Actualized.org

Happiness is a very tricky thing, which is why almost no one has it. Also notice, truth too is a very tricky thing which very few people have. Hmmmmm.... might these two be connected??

I dont know, Youre probabbly right... I think kids are happy, I was happy as a kid also, I wasnt enlightened, I did what i wanted and loved all the day, I was happy, very happy... My dreams were in line with my reality, everything was interesting and fun and reacheble, now there are also many things that I would like to do or -to be- but obviously, like for most of the people its very hard to make it, and it comes with a high personal/pshological price, and all of that is of course an illusion and a ego goal... however, kids are happy and not enlightened...

[Charlotte]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Appeal to authority does not equal truth. Dogmatic people appeal to authority and credentials because they refuse to be conscious for themselves.

Thank you Leo!!! ? This is what I keep trying to tell my family!

Its exhausting, they can keep it if it makes them feel better ?

[tecladocasio]

@Leo Gura seeking for truth is just another name for the seek for happiness

[tecladocasio]

@Charlotte you're appealing to the authority of Leo ... aahahha

[Charlotte]

@tecladocasio Not true, just because somebody provided with me with a map to get to the truth does not mean that the Map IS the truth. 

(As in my truth). 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Charlotte

[Telepresent]

13 hours ago, Dino D said:

I support non duality, I underastand it a lot, I often ask the same question on witch i NEVER get a logical answer that makes seanse, not evan close.

Can I ask what the question is? Not with intent to answer it, but because you've made me very curious!

[Hsinav]

15 hours ago, MM1988 said:

Here is another in-depth analysis I found of you Leo

https://www.quora.com/Is-Leo-Gura’s-Actualized-org-a-scam/answer/Connor-Frankston-1

Damn it must be crazy to read stuff like that about yourself on the internet, I cant even imagine.

There is nothing "in-depth" here, just shallow. A guy who´s not open to the possibility to move beyond the intellect. In he´s next article he might even get better with words but it´s still gonna be shallow. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Hsinav

[egoless]

7 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

There is no you and me.  That would be dualism.  It’s a little bit more wild than that.  Non-duality makes no distinctions.  Saying I create my reality is Egoic.  You create your reality — how Egoic is that!   I get mine and you get yours.  Me me me, mine mine mine, yours yours yours.  You see?  

Nah... you consciosness through each mind filter create your reality... having a choice and not having a choice is up to you. Fundamentally there is no difference between those two. Depends on which lens are you “wearing”

Edited March 19, 2018 by egoless

[Dino D]

2 hours ago, Telepresent said:

Can I ask what the question is? Not with intent to answer it, but because you've made me very curious!

1. Why am I not aware of your life (thoughts, perception) etc.?

2. 70 people in one room, there are 70 rooms being experienced, not one room? (this is a explenation that sholud debunk the existance of a material world)

3. What happens in deep sleep? where is the awareness? where was it before I was born?

4. Why do we change experience when we affect the brain (drugs, brain damage) and why do people claim that there is counciousnes outside of the brain, if everything points that it is into the brain? There is no experiece without a brain-living human...

5. Why does the enlightement experience, or the non dual realization go away?

6. Why do we give any credit to first person experience? Schizophrenia can give us the experience that we are a bird, I can be deluded, is that valid? 6.1 The enlightement experience is real, it does really happen for some people? How we do really know what this is, maybe its just a ,,brain state"? How do we know that it is true and valid? Its the only experience or better to say realization that goes away and that can not be reproducet, you get something/and see it, and then its gone. When you trought an optical illusion for the first time, as example, you can see it always...

7. why is there this experience at all? why are there anything to percive?

8. I see that I am the observer, I understand that i am evan the observed, but I dont know, see, or remember that i created this illusion, how and withc with intiligence do I sustain this whole illusory universe?

9. I dont get that right now I'm being an elephant, a bird, a planet, that me (Dino the human) am right now being raped, have sex, fly, am a vampire, do the kamehameha and infinity? sorry thats just theoretical, not actual

. There is much more, I asked the same question for the period of two years, on different places, but I didnt keep track, when I hear something that makes no seanse i ask, I dont get an answer that I can relate to, few months later, a different answer, and still makes no sense... I hade aslo some arguments/questions on free will but I cant remember...  You dont need to answer, Rupert spira, mojiji and other gave there explonation-not rational analogys for most of the time, Leo did also, and very often people just ignored when it gets tricky, when my arguments are hard to discredit (when we go deep into the debating), people just dont answer... there are much more questions that i asked, many on this forum, and I got genuis answers and explonations that make sense and that helped me a lot, and Iam very thankfull for all of this. Many times people answer also with the trick answer, as example mojiji has: come on, why you worry about deep sleep, just take a rest and sleep, and you smile and say ok ok, but what was that for on answer, come on... And why am I not aware of your experience, and sometimes people answer you are but you dont know... againg, lets be sceptical, just a little bit

[Telepresent]

@Dino D A lot of good questions. And all I can suggest is to think about context. If infinity is, then there must be the experience of you not experiencing anyone else's thoughts, just as there must be the experience of you experiencing everyone's thoughts. I agree, don't buy into clever answers that stop you investigating, but also be skeptical of your own ideas, your own answers. 

18 minutes ago, Dino D said:

9. I dont get that right now I'm being an elephant, a bird, a planet, that me (Dino the human) am right now being raped, have sex, fly, am a vampire, do the kamehameha and infinity? sorry thats just theoretical, not actual

Which I? You the thinking entity which is attached to and defined by the body-mind-definition? No, it's not being any of these things. It's being the body-mind-definition you think of as you. Is the absolute being those other things? Maybe. I don't know

[Dino D]

1 minute ago, Telepresent said:

@Dino D A lot of good questions. And all I can suggest is to think about context. If infinity is, then there must be the experience of you not experiencing anyone else's thoughts, just as there must be the experience of you experiencing everyone's thoughts. I agree, don't buy into clever answers that stop you investigating, but also be skeptical of your own ideas, your own answers. 

Which I? You the thinking entity which is attached to and defined by the body-mind-definition? No, it's not being any of these things. It's being the body-mind-definition you think of as you. Is the absolute being those other things? Maybe. I don't know

Ok, on this point the debate speeds up and people cant go further or just leave. Lets show it on your example step by step. I will answer/ask only on the second part, just that we dont expand to much.

I the thinking entity am bullshit and dont exist, I'm not the body mind. Ok, lets agree 100% on this, lets say thats a fact (its not and I have many doubts and arguments why not, but non duality has also, they are very logical I agree on them, it makes sense, and lets just continue) So I'm not the body mind, I could be everything, or nothing, or some spiritual awareness, or a soul, whatever. Lets say im apsolute/God (thats the opinion and experience of Leo and non duality, lets just say I'm that) and then comes the unlogical part that makes no sense, or it makes sense but its not factual, and its just dogma for me, I the absoulte am being all those other things? But Iam asking and telling you that I dont experience ONE OTHER THING, from all those other things, I just experience the body mind. Non duality tells me that I'm the Elephant, the bug, the planet, that i am being raped right now and that Iam you, without any prove at all. Not sceintific, not experiential, not any awareness of it, not anything. And now you need to answer concrete and logicaly, prove me and explain me that right now I am actually being raped and being an elephant?

Also with an enlightement experience (when I dont belive anymore that here in my body lives something, and that there is me) i see you (the vison of your body) and i belive I'm also you and we are all one. Thats the result of my thinking from the perception whitout beliving in the existence of me-the ego personality (Dino), at the moment of enlightement I didnt experience your thoughts, or the feling of a lion in africa or the stone, or the microbe and atom... Right now, if I belive that I'm the room, and I would percive that the vision of the room is also me, thats still only subjective perspective that is only valid for the experiencig being... and so on...

If you say I'm the elephant, and I dont experience, feel it, no scientific prove, no facts, no memories, no nothing... HOW can I KNOW and see this? I can just belive= Dogma, no logic, living critcism, scepticism, rationality, first person experience, evidence, everything, and lets just accept the ,,non dual" view point and theorethical truth...

 

[Dino D]

21 minutes ago, Telepresent said:

@Dino D A lot of good questions. And all I can suggest is to think about context. If infinity is, then there must be the experience of you not experiencing anyone else's thoughts, just as there must be the experience of you experiencing everyone's thoughts. I agree, don't buy into clever answers that stop you investigating, but also be skeptical of your own ideas, your own answers. 

Which I? You the thinking entity which is attached to and defined by the body-mind-definition? No, it's not being any of these things. It's being the body-mind-definition you think of as you. Is the absolute being those other things? Maybe. I don't know

Ok here is also the first part. If infinity is, there must be the experience of you not experiencing... Maybe infinity is not, who knows.

The concept of infinity is the only infinity, everything is finate, and maybe with infinite potential that has a finate otucome. The distance betwen you and me can be split infinitly. lest say we are two miles away so 2 of something=a final distance, but we can say we are infinitly away, its not 2, its 1/2, then 1/2000000, and go bit more close for 1/999999999999999999999999 miles, and onother 1/99999999999999999999999999999999999999, and so it appears that we are infinitly away, and we can not reach each other and so on... but are we, ot is it just the finate 2 miles... Infinite possibileties are possible, infinite pottentional, my life could went infinite ways, so there is a combination of evants that could led to me being raped, but NO, ONLY ONE COMBINATION HAPPEND and that is this one, infinite potentional gives final otcomes and we know and can prove only this one, everything other os belif, theory, dogma... of not, prove it with science, facts, or just first person experience, with dreams, with anything, you cant, but you still say its infinite. (maybe it is, I'm open midned but you have to give me something ,,real)

Leo uses open mind in a way that I dont accept. Lets say i come to you and tell you I have 25 hands... And the whole world spends 60 years to find them with all the methods possible (including spiritual drugs, hocus pocus) what not, and you dont, and I say youre not openminded enought, youre wrong... We just cant talk like that... I hope you get me

[tsuki]

@Dino D post these questions in a separate thread. I would like to grapple with you over them, as they are my points of interest.

[Dino D]

8 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Dino D post these questions in a separate thread. I would like to grapple with you over them, as they are my points of interest.

When the time comes, i will

[tsuki]

6 minutes ago, Dino D said:

When the time comes, i will

@Dino D Be sure to notify me. I could take them on here, but I can easily go for pages and I feel bad for derailing threads.

Edited March 19, 2018 by tsuki

[Telepresent]

40 minutes ago, Dino D said:

If you say I'm the elephant, and I dont experience, feel it, no scientific prove, no facts, no memories, no nothing... HOW can I KNOW and see this?

First of I just want to confirm that I don't argue for any perspective of 'truth', 'reality', etc. I have to take it on faith that you exist, that you think/feel/experience anything at all. I have to associate the words over this page with another person who has another conscious experience which responds to these words. And if that's true your truth is as true as my truth. I can only speak from my truth. 

You can't. You can't. If you think you must or that's what enlightenment is, that's your mental shit to get past. Nobody ever told you you would feel the experience of being an elephant. They may have suggested the worried of being an elephant is part of the same infinity that the experience of being you is. But that's up to you to determine. 

Let go of the idea that you have to experience the elephant. That's in your head, not in anything anyone told you. 

You've got a strong grasp of infinity and what it means. How seriously have you taken the idea that finite you and infinite you may be different things? 

[Dino D]

1 hour ago, Telepresent said:

First of I just want to confirm that I don't argue for any perspective of 'truth', 'reality', etc. I have to take it on faith that you exist, that you think/feel/experience anything at all. I have to associate the words over this page with another person who has another conscious experience which responds to these words. And if that's true your truth is as true as my truth. I can only speak from my truth. 

You can't. You can't. If you think you must or that's what enlightenment is, that's your mental shit to get past. Nobody ever told you you would feel the experience of being an elephant. They may have suggested the worried of being an elephant is part of the same infinity that the experience of being you is. But that's up to you to determine. 

Let go of the idea that you have to experience the elephant. That's in your head, not in anything anyone told you. 

You've got a strong grasp of infinity and what it means. How seriously have you taken the idea that finite you and infinite you may be different things? 

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Now you did the same as others did, you just dint answer. Sorry, you dont have to take on faith that I exist, its not the same as taking for faith that I or you am an elephant. We cant talk like that, maybe its not true but you dont explain it and give an valid argumetn. You can see me, touch me, prove my existance with instruments, with other people, with natural laws, logic and everything, you cant do any of that in order to show me that Im an elephant right now, or a planet...

I'm not now talking what enlightement is, I have a concrete question, prove me and explain me that i?m now an elephant? you answer me on that question with talking about other stuff/topic.

You say let go of this. Come onnnnn, I ASK a good question, and you say let go of it hahaha. Do I nede to elaborate more on that??? Really?

How seriously have you taken the idea that finite you and infinite you may be different things? - I dont know!!!! but now I'm talking about me being an elephant.

Non duality means a lot for you, and for me, its amazing, and what do we do? we defend it no matter what, we stop beind sceptic and logical. Your answer now, this last one, reminds me so hard of christianity and religion in the dark ages. (flat earth, God, creations, adam and eve, god created the world in 7 days). Religion didnt alow logic, they didnt alow science, scepticism and ASKING QUESTIONS, they also didnt answer, and if they tryed at the end of a hard debate they said you just have to belive and God will show you, and if not you still have to... So are you saying to me, fuXk logic, science, my actual experience, and everything, you need to give up, dont expect an answer, its infinite it does not exist and thats it...  I asked question, and you didnt answer at all, and no human being cant do nothing with such answers.. I don't buy into clever answers that stop my investigating, as you were pushed hard enought, and you couldnt give a ,,normal" answer you gave that non answer in a religous manner. Hmm, my friend, pleas do inqury on that and be open minded that maybe its not how you (or non duality) thinks or evan percives... Perception is not the apsolute truth, knowin isnt also... I fell from the rails, but i think the basic stuff why I cant accept your answer is clear...

[abrakamowse]

I am BEING MANIPULATED by fork-tongued Devils

[Dragallur]

4 hours ago, Dino D said:

its 1/2, then 1/2000000, and go bit more close for 1/999999999999999999999999 miles, and onother 1/99999999999999999999999999999999999999, and so it appears that we are infinitly away, and we can not reach each other and so on... but are we, ot is it just the finate 2 miles...

If you split something into small pieces it does not become bigger (or do I misunderstand your analogy).

Otherwise great post I think you are asking the exact right questions and I am at the same point as you are. There is this phrase "Absolute Infinity" that started to appear not long ago. Now it is just everywhere thrown around without any context. So far it seems like basically, only Leo experienced and it was via psychedelics. It would be dumb to just believe all of this, it seems to me only like rhetorics and I do not want to risk believing something and then it happening as an illusion only because I did.

[Dino D]

1 hour ago, Dragallur said:

If you split something into small pieces it does not become bigger (or do I misunderstand your analogy).

Otherwise great post I think you are asking the exact right questions and I am at the same point as you are. There is this phrase "Absolute Infinity" that started to appear not long ago. Now it is just everywhere thrown around without any context. So far it seems like basically, only Leo experienced and it was via psychedelics. It would be dumb to just believe all of this, it seems to me only like rhetorics and I do not want to risk believing something and then it happening as an illusion only because I did.

with that example i wanthed to explain that infinity does not actually exist.

it exist only in a theoretical way, a relative way, and maybe in this universe we have infinite potential (so maybe someware evan dragon ball is happening but probbaby not) however in reality we have only finity...

the distance between me and you is finate, its 2 miles, thats it, we cant split it, only with ideas abouth lenght, the distance is as long as it is, and it has finate distance

the distance betwen you and me can be infinite only on theory. Lets try to messure the distance with starting with 1 mile + 1/2 of a mile + 1/4 of a mile +... 1/99999999 1/infinite, and we will never get to two miles, so we have infinite distance between us. but its not like that, also if the world is material, there is probbably the smallest partical someware and that would be the shortest distance, and in reality you cant evan aplly 1/infinite...

so i dont mean if you split something it does not become biger (but thats also true) i just wanted to show in what relative way infinity exists, and it what finate way the world has taken shape (finate distance in reality vs infinite distance in theory)...

As experiencing infinity, imagine you experience at one moment (let take as example 1/100 of a second for a moment (a relative definition of course) 50 things-this would maybe feel like infinity, like 50 times more then you ever experienced in your life (drugs can do this) now imagine you experience 5000000000000 things in a moment (and add the belive or feeling that youre all of those things) or you experince 1/5000000000000 of a thing, this can only feel like infinity, but it isnt...