Criticism of the Quantum Mechanics Video I found on reddit

[Rilles]

@abrakamowse

[abrakamowse]

@Rilles  Lol!

 

Exactly! That's what happens!!! hehehe... thanks for sharing!

[SOUL]

4 hours ago, abrakamowse said:

There's no one to have it wrong or right, hehehe... you are right.

 

There's only finger pointing to the moon

 

Who is it that notices that there is no one to have it wrong or right?..... haha

[abrakamowse]

19 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Who is it that notices that there is no one to have it wrong or right?..... haha

Lol

[Samra]

A bit unrelated. For those like me, who like visuals and stories to grasp something, I found this sweet comic book on quantum theory and history in berlin. 

[abrakamowse]

@Samra  That looks so good! I will ask in my comic store to see if they have it! I really like comics and I do comics myself.

Thanks for sharing! 

:-)

[Truth Addict]

Doing science and isolating philosophy is like cutting off one leg  BELIEVING (and I mean it) that one is enough.

[Leo Gura]

On 3/20/2018 at 4:56 AM, Rilles said:

@abrakamowse

Obviously it's a superposition: 69

 

[lmfao]

@Outer @MM1988@Leo Gura (I'm on mobile and the website won't let my delete the three blue usernames) 

Well this thread's been fun to read lol. I've only seen part 1 of Leo's Quantum Mechanics videos, but I'm pretty neutral to his assertions about the implications of QM since I don't know much about QM. I think materialism is an ultimately a groundless assertion about reality, but I don't see how QM can be used to debunk it. I think QM can (perhaps) be incorporated into a materlistic paradigm. 

A materlistic point of view asserts that our reality just consists of matter and energy (although, matter is a form of energy according to Einstein). A better way of describing materialism would be the belief that all phenomena in reality is the result of energy/matter configurations in space and time, although it is possible that there are "higher" things in which space and time are nested in. Whether scientists will try to explain away space-time as another form of energy itself, who knows.

In terms of QM experiments, although the traditional layout of the "double slit experiment" is very simple to understand and is very mind boggling, it is not the best experiment out there at showing just how awesome QM is. In the traditional layout, a person can argue that it is not "observation" that collapses a wave function, but it is the way in which we physically interact with said photon/electron/whatever to make the observation that causes it to act like a particle rather than a wave. 

But the "delayed choice quantum eraser experiment" really eliminates  that doubt, and once you hear about it it raises so many questions. This experiment seems to indicate that human knowledge/awareness alone of the possible paths that a photon can take affects how the photon behaves. The intracaseis of this discovery is something I do not know.  Human consciousness is linked in some way to all of this. However, if consciousness is in essence a particular matter-energy configuration as is the behaviour of a (photon) /(anything), then there can be some properties of consciousness which we do not know of that are affecting the behaviour of photon. Perhaps a materlist could argue that there's some hidden form of energy beyond perception in the universe which is responsible for all these phenomena, and this hidden form of energy is linked to our consciousness. Such a thing would be pointless though. 

The way in which a materlist could defend his position given the fact that human knowledge/observation and the "external world" are linked in such a strange way would depend upon the very specific details of these phenomena. If I was studying this, I would try to think of loads of creative ways to study how human observation plays a role in the behaviour of the external world. 

Without knowledge of the specifics of these QM experiments I think it is unknown whether QM can be incorporated into a materlist paradigm. Finding the specifics necessary is perhaps not too hard, but I myself haven't done so. 

If there's any take way from what I've wrote it would be to look into the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment, it's really interesting. Don't take my explanations of QM too seriously, Im just using this post as a testing board for some ideas. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by lmfao

[cirkussmile]

33 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Outer

If there's any take way from what I've wrote it would be to look into the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment, it's really interesting. Don't take my explanations of QM too seriously, Im just using this post as a testing board for some ideas. 

Continue testing your ideas publicly! 

Much love

[Nahm]

@lmfao Excellent post. Your writing is so clear.   That ‘underlying energy’, and the materialist issue with human consciousness involvement...have you taken psychadelics before? I’m not trying to encourage, but wondering if you’ve had a Being ‘glimpse’ yet. 

[lmfao]

@Nahm I haven't taken psychedelics, although I plan to at some point in the future. Have you taken psychadelics before? When meditating you can get really attuned to the present moment and feel connected to "God"(or whatever you want to call it). You become aware of the fact that all your thoughts and feelings come from a "void" in the sense that you don't know where these thoughts and feelings come from. Think about how you can't control what you think, because that requires being able to think a thought before you think it. Your whole reality "just is". 

[Nahm]

@lmfao Yeah, just shrooms. 

[Elisabeth]

13 hours ago, lmfao said:

@lmfao But the "delayed choice quantum eraser experiment" really eliminates  that doubt, and once you hear about it it raises so many questions. This experiment seems to indicate that human knowledge/awareness alone of the possible paths that a photon can take affects how the photon behaves. The intracaseis of this discovery is something I do not know.  Human consciousness is linked in some way to all of this. However, if consciousness is in essence a particular matter-energy configuration as is the behaviour of a (photon) /(anything), then there can be some properties of consciousness which we do not know of that are affecting the behaviour of photon. Perhaps a materlist could argue that there's some hidden form of energy beyond perception in the universe which is responsible for all these phenomena, and this hidden form of energy is linked to our consciousness. Such a thing would be pointless though. 

6

Actually, no. 

From my quick search, the materialist will argue that the experiment is explainable within basic QM, using the standard concepts of "entanglement" and "wave-function collapse". The wave-function collapses when the detector clicks. The concepts are counter-intuitive and the instant change in the wave-function is a bit problematic, but they have been incorporated into our basic understanding a long time ago. No need for consciousness in the process. Consciousness is a very ill-defined term once you need to actually do the math

Here is the article: Taming the delayed-choice quantum erraser . I didn't go through the math yet, and I don't expect any of you to do so - but you could try reading the abstract and the conclusions. 

[Leo Gura]

@Elisabeth Lol, a detector cannot click without you being conscious of it!

Unless you are conscious, reality doesn't exist. The detector only exists in your consciousness.

You are attempting to do science without being mindful that it is happening inside YOU! You cannot isolate the experiment from you.

Consciousness isn't a term. Consciousness is the only thing you got to work with, if you actually take a look at reality rather than spinning stories.

Science is a story. You can stop spinning it at any moment. It is not ultimately true.

[lmfao]

@Elisabeth cool article, I'll probably check it out. It is unfortunate that I can't decipher sections 4-6. That most that can be done when you don't understand the maths is to just read the verbal descriptions of the equations and see what verbal conclusions they draw of those equations. Even a verbal descriptor like "wave-function" is rooted mathematically though, lol. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by lmfao

[Nahm]

Consciousness ultimately is experiential, never definable. There’s no one to define it to. You can know the why of the universe, but you can’t, inherently, tell anyone else. The first word of any explanation uttered can only happen in duality, let alone math. 

[abrakamowse]

As Einstein said:

Quote

“There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can live as if everything is a miracle.”

 

[Nahm]

@abrakamowse ❤️ “And this “real” - it’s impossible if possible, at who’s blind word?” - Silversun Pick Ups

 

[abrakamowse]

@Nahm