Two Different Nirvikalpa Samadhis

[Faceless]

Freedom from a master is essential. It shows the ones actual state of being. 

@Shanmugam and I differ on the point of view of the necessity of a teacher/guru psychologically or spiritually but seeking higher states is obviously a sign of being influenced by demand/will/desire ‘the stream of thought ‘ and movement of the ego. 

But as far as the message @Shanmugam is attempting to get across I think it should be not blindly accepted but perhaps considered. To say that there are ‘higher states’ and ‘deeper states’ is an implication that psychological time is being applied to this movement to achieve. This only leads to illusion and deception. 

Psychological order can not be maintained through the movement of psychological time ‘becoming’

No matter what differences of opinions we have with one another we shouldn’t let the known ‘the accumulation of our past being our bias and prejudices’ divide the forum. That is the real significance of self learning. To express outwardly and embody what is gained through perception inwardly to bring about harmony with ourselves and the whole of society. There is no division between us actually. If we are only interested in our own validation and self affirmation then that action implies that we feel alienated and separate from one another. Which with all the we are ‘god’ talk makes for extreme hypocrisy. 

I’m sure we can agree on that right? ??‍♂️

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shanmugam]

55 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Deep @Shanmugam Yeah. Osho is God, Sadhguru is a fake, Leo is wrong, you’re enlightened, no one else is. We got it. Would it be “seeking” to simply move on, a little, something new maybe? 

I just can't stop laughing after seeing something really funny...

By saying whatever you have said so far, you are the one who says the following:

Osho was wrong, Ramana Maharshi was wrong, Nisargadatta was wrong, Buddha was wrong, Shankara was wrong, even Sadhguru is wrong (because he also says enlightenment is binary and paranormal powers are distractions),Eckhart Tolle is wrong, Ashtavakra was wrong and about 1000 other people who have said the same thing are wrong! But you and Leo are right!

This is exactly what you are implying... Instead of defending yourself, just think about what you are saying buddy... It is for your own good.

You people have redefined the word 'enlightenment to suit your own personal desires. That gives me enough reason to say that this forum is becoming a cult.

[Shanmugam]

4 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Freedom from a master is essential. It shows the ones actual state of being. 

@Shanmugam and I differ on the point of view of the necessity of a teacher/guru psychologically or spiritually but seeking higher states is obviously a sign of being influenced by demand/will/desire ‘the stream of thought ‘ and movement of the ego. 

Actually, I agree that there should not be a dependency to a guru. But people need guidance anyway. It doesn't have to be an infallible and the only guru's guidance. It is just a guidance that a person can get from other spiritual friends who are far ahead in the path. 

Quote

Psychological order can not be maintained through the movement of psychological time ‘becoming’

This understanding is exactly what is missing in some people here... They don't think that it is possible to be completely free from psychological time. In fact, enlightenment has been redefined here into the exact opposite of what it actually is..

A typical human being's thought process is always regarding a journey from 'A' to 'B'.. A spiritual path also begins this way. But they have concluded that this is all enlightenment is all about... For them, it is a never ending journey from 'A' to 'B'... 

Dear friends, please wake up.. Enlightenment is completely breaking out of the psychological movement from A to B; It is totally opposite of what you have been thinking...

[Faceless]

13 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Actually, I agree that there should not be a dependency to a guru. But people need guidance anyway. It doesn't have to be an infallible and the only guru's guidance. It is just a guidance that a person can get from other spiritual friends who are far ahead in the path. 

This understanding is exactly what is missing in some people here... They don't think that it is possible to be completely free from psychological time. In fact, enlightenment has been redefined here into the exact opposite of what it actually is..

A typical human being's thought process is always regarding a journey from 'A' to 'B'.. A spiritual path also begins this way. But they have concluded that this is all enlightenment is all about... For them, it is a never ending journey from 'A' to 'B'... 

Dear friends, please wake up.. Enlightenment is completely breaking out of the psychological movement from A to B; It is totally opposite of what you have been thinking...

Yes an ability to pay attention to another without bias and prejudice is very important, and yes I agree it is also very important to understand the significance of sharing a message with each other. We are responsible for one another. 

‘Psychological time’ the movement from A to B is absolutely the wrong approach in embodiment of action that is timeless. 

I hope people consider this message. It’s essential. 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Faceless

[Shanmugam]

2 minutes ago, brovakhiin said:

The stateless state/natural state: complete surrender to and cessation of preference to any one state.

Yes.. I had quoted from Ashtavakra Gita in this same thread. Those verses closely reflect what it is:

17.17 The liberated one neither avoids experience nor craves it. He enjoys what comes and what does not.

18.56 Though pleased he is not pleasured; though pained he does not suffer. This wonderful state is understood only by those like him.

[Deep]

1 hour ago, brovakhiin said:

 Lmao thought you made a friend and got backstabbed

We can be friends. 

@Shanmugam Thanks for the help. 

1 hour ago, Shanmugam said:

1)His seeking has ended (he is enlightened)

2) He still has no concrete idea or even interest to pursue a spiritual path

I am whatever you say I am; if I'm not what you say I am, I'm nothing at all. I'm seeking enlightenment, but I'm not desperate for it. 

1 hour ago, Shanmugam said:

 

Not really sure what kind of experience you are talking about. If you explain a little bit about your experience, I can say something..But I still remember what you said in one of your posts here:

This is my secret: When I post ideas here, I like to post contradictory ideas to see how people react. Some times I post ideas which are pro enlightenment. Some times I post ideas which are anti enlightenment. I think people here have been brainwashed to think enlightenment is the best thing ever. There are downsides to enlightenment as well. Plus I think enlightenment only happens through God's grace. 

Here is my experience:

1. I feel a wide range of emotions daily. 

2. I don't need a lot of material possessions. 

3. I don't need a high paying job, but I don't mind working in one. 

4. I don't fear death. 

5. I don't worry about what will happen to me. 

6. I feel heat in various parts of my body. 

7. I don't feel attached to things that "Deep" was previously attached to. 

8. There is a strange feeling that I can't explain. 

1 hour ago, Shanmugam said:

 

Not everything in your mind happens with your conscious awareness. 

Yes, I admit I can be arrogant sometimes. 

1 hour ago, Shanmugam said:

Enlightenment is pretty much a death. It is a psychological death that you have to go through... The words like kundalini, Brahman, Atman, God etc can be deceiving to the human mind and give hopes to the ego as if there is going to be some kind of achievement. But enlightenment is really not an achievement. Spiritual path  is a game of losing. It is actually the most ordinary thing in the world. 

But the first step in the spiritual path is, realizing that you don't know...

I agree that enlightenment is not an achievement. I disagree about words such as kundalini, Brahman, Atman, etc. being deceitful to the human mind. Those words are pointing to something about reality. Kundalini can definitely be experienced in the body. Atman can certainly be realized. Yes, I admit I don't know many things. 

[SeanD]

@Shanmugam

If I am to believe that you, tolle, osho, and the Buddha have all attained enlightenment, then I can’t not conclude that there exist varying levels of it. It’s hard to imagine those men heckling other teachers; even harder to imagine them as keyboard warriors.

Also, calling people who disagree with you not ‘open-minded’ or cult-like are cheap forms of discourse.

[Nahm]

@Shanmugam Hey. Wow. Sorry. I’m realizing ‘funny because it’s true’ humor does not translate online. I apologize. We’re the same being man. We both know this. I love ya.  I do see how poorly that came across. It’s not that I think those gurus are wrong, or that you’re wrong, it’s that it’s an illusion, it’s now, and it’s infinite. I’m coming from a much different place, we all are. Paradoxically, you are the only being in existence - knowing this - why would you think there is anything objective at all about gurus? This reality is subjective, it doesn’t exist. Lighten up man. I have read the authors you’re referring to, but it was over twenty years ago. It’s like a past life to me as the realizations thereafter from quantum physics, practices and psychedelics show the literal nonexistence those gurus were pointing to. This nonexistence includes them. Maybe you realize that maybe you don’t. Who cares though, right? It’s a dream. It’s play. There is nothing serious going on here. Again, I fully apologize as I see I offended you.  I suggest, if we’re all gonna keep jerkin on enlightenment, that we make a post, and each personally define what the hell we’re even talking about - and we don’t comment on eachother’s comments - just on that thread. It gets it out. We see where we’re coming from. Of course, at the same time, I’m wrong, and doing this amounts to nothing. That’s the pure freedom of the dream. Nothing amounts to nothing. Sorry again. I think more highly of you than I have exemplified and I’ll be more mindful. 

[Nahm]

Another post suggestion - brutal honesty - like roast style ripping each other to shreds- hold no punches. . That’d be funny, fun, and bonding. Might just be my flavor though, not sure. 

[Shanmugam]

55 minutes ago, SeanD said:

@Shanmugam

If I am to believe that you, tolle, osho, and the Buddha have all attained enlightenment, then I can’t not conclude that there exist varying levels of it. It’s hard to imagine those men heckling other teachers; even harder to imagine them as keyboard warriors.

Also, calling people who disagree with you not ‘open-minded’ or cult-like are cheap forms of discourse.

Have you actually read Buddha or Osho.. Mahavira was contemporary of Buddha. Buddha criticised him and even made fun of him, because Mahavira was advocating extreme asceticism... 

And Osho has harshly criticized all the fake ones claiming to be gurus.. Have you read the Bible story of Jesus beating people in the temple?

Sorry.. These people do not work according to your expectations or imaginations. In fact, one advantage of enlightenment is that you can put any kind of mask you want.. You can even wear a mask of conman.

I am just saying the plain truth I have seen. It may appear like a war or argument to you, but this is how I speak when people distort the truth in front me..

I don't expect you to believe in any shit.. But be open minded and just consider the possibility that the people that I am  replying to can be wrong.

I will repeat what I have been saying here: enlightenment is end of seeking and suffering; so there cannot be any seeking for a higher level after enlightenment.. Period..

Whether you believe me or not, whether you agree or disagree with me, whether you make fun of it or criticize it doesn't matter. It will not change what is true...

And I still stand by what I said..this forum is turning into a cult.. 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Faceless]

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Another post suggestion - brutal honesty - like roast style ripping each other to shreds- hold no punches. . That’d be funny, fun, and bonding. Might just be my flavor though, not sure. 

Lolol haha 

we should be honest with ourselves 

Let’s roast ourselves instead?

[Faceless]

If we all roasted ourselves there wouldn’t be the desire another 

namsayn?

[Shanmugam]

29 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Shanmugam Hey. Wow. Sorry. I’m realizing ‘funny because it’s true’ humor does not translate online. I apologize. We’re the same being man. We both know this. I love ya.  I do see how poorly that came across. It’s not that I think those gurus are wrong, or that you’re wrong, it’s that it’s an illusion, it’s now, and it’s infinite. I’m coming from a much different place, we all are. Paradoxically, you are the only being in existence - knowing this - why would you think there is anything objective at all about gurus? This reality is subjective, it doesn’t exist. Lighten up man. I have read the authors you’re referring to, but it was over twenty years ago. It’s like a past life to me as the realizations thereafter from quantum physics, practices and psychedelics show the literal nonexistence those gurus were pointing to. This nonexistence includes them. Maybe you realize that maybe you don’t. Who cares though, right? It’s a dream. It’s play. There is nothing serious going on here. Again, I fully apologize as I see I offended you.  I suggest, if we’re all gonna keep jerkin on enlightenment, that we make a post, and each personally define what the hell we’re even talking about - and we don’t comment on eachother’s comments - just on that thread. It gets it out. We see where we’re coming from. Of course, at the same time, I’m wrong, and doing this amounts to nothing. That’s the pure freedom of the dream. Nothing amounts to nothing. Sorry again. I think more highly of you than I have exemplified and I’ll be more mindful. 

That's the only possible way you can reply now.. I expected this.. "If I can't afford to be wrong, if I don't want to accept that I  am wrong, then I can bring in the classic non-duality statement and say 'after all everything is a dream'".... That's a good idea man

[Faceless]

? 

??

 

[Nahm]

@Shanmugam I accept that I am wrong. This is like the millionth time. Old hat. It amounts to nothing.  If the subject is enlightenment, every word is wrong, every word is a lie. 

[Shanmugam]

Just now, Nahm said:

@Shanmugam I accept that I am wrong. This is like the millionth time. Old hat. It amounts to nothing. 

Yeah.. the sentence has to end with "It amounts to nothing"...  Otherwise it won't sound like you are talking non-duality..

[Nahm]

@Shanmugam Can you accept, that everything word you’ve ever said or written, every practice you’ve done, all of it, amounts to nothing? It’s very freeing. RIght and wrong is duality thinking. It literally amounts to nothing. I know you know this. Well, I think I know you know this. Lol.

[Nahm]

Can’t stop laughing at the timing of this picture from the other post. Thought I’d share it here. (Cause I think it’ll make you laugh too)

[abrakamowse]

Today I was thinking the same, like my ego (the jiva) really acts by itself. Everything is mechanic.

Someone says something, then a thought appears, the jiva do something according to past experiences, etc... 

I am mostly reading now the forum, not participating because I realized that everything I write is BS and what I understand from others is twisted by the ego and the other people also interprets what I say wrong. Because they filter also through the lenses of their egos/jivas....

So, I prefer to be in silence.

Edited March 23, 2018 by abrakamowse

[Clown]

I think a quote from Sadhguru would be relevant here:

 

Quote

For one who wants to just realize, none of these things are necessary – just a knock on your head, and it should happen. It is not all that complicated. But if you want to explore the nature of your existence, which is in some way a micro representation of the larger existence, it is an endless exploration.

 

My understanding of this is that realization of your true nature, enlightenment or awakening is "nothing special". People just get it mixed up with all sorts of heightened states you can get to by some yoga techniques, drugs or mantras etc. And nothing wrong with all that but if you want to be realized, you could just bypass all that and go straight to the actual thing which is seeing that you are that in which all these experiences, perceptions and dimensions happen in.

If you're interested in aliens, wacky states of conciousness and all that stuff, just be honest about it and don't try to mix it up with some noble search for truth. Get into chaos magic or something and summon up Mickey Mouse and have fun.