Did Maslow make a mistake?

[Hardkill]

I would like to have the Moderators’ opinion on something that I am confused about regarding Maslow’s hierarchy.

According to Maslow's hierarchy and what Leo said in his video pertaining to the practical application of this vital concept of psychology, fulfilling sexual needs, along with establishing familial and platonic bonds, must be accomplished before one works on building their self-esteem and certainly before one undertakes activities and ideas pertaining to self-actualization and self-transcendence. 

Yes, Leo did say that you can short-cut your way to the top or near-top of the Maslow hierarchy, IF YOU YOURSELF CAN tolerate skipping many, if not all of the fundamental human needs for surviving and functional well in this world. However, I REALLY DON'T think, in all honesty, that I can do that. I am very horny and do not have ABNORMALLY high levels of willpower or even an EXTREMELY high desire to FOCUS SOLELY on building my self-esteem, confidence, as well as self-actualizing and self-transcendence. I don't mean to come off as a self-centered coward or weak-minded person. I am just being realistic and practical on how to improve the quality of my whole life, like Leo was suggesting for most people to do before they can truly and wholeheartedly, ultimately commit to working on self-actualization and self-transcendence. 

However, It's quite confusing because many people on this forum, numerous other forums, mental health experts, therapists, life and dating coaches, etc. have mentioned how crucial it is to establish or make sure that you have enough self-love and confidence and esteem, in yourself and work on your passions and self-actualize before you embark upon the world of dating, sex, and romance. Otherwise, you will very unlikely succeed at dating and not being needy by trying to fill some sort of emotional void created from your past.

Please help me clarify on what someone like me is supposed to do according to the hierarchy pyramid. I would really appreciate it.

[Truth]

Hey mods, tell him self-actualization and the hierarchy  is his ENTIRE life not some place he gets to, and that the hierarchy is just a map of where he's headed. It's not an absolute thing. The hierarchy is about scope, it's not an absolute process. Realistically he'll be all over this fuckin map.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Truth

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill You can work on multiple facets of your life and the hierarchy at once.

It would be a mistake to start only from the bottom of the hierarchy and not do any other work (like meditation) because you tell yourself, "Well, Maslow said I cannot learn to meditate until I satisfy all my sexual cravings, because meditation is a need higher up the hierarchy."

Instead, how the hierarchy can be useful is by showing you where you need more development and what is holding you back. For example, you meditate for a year and you notice you're not getting the great results you expected, so you ask yourself, "Hmmmm... I wonder what my problem is? Oh, yeah! It's because I haven't had sex in 5 years and my mind is driving me crazy to be in relationship. Maybe I should fix this issue. Or maybe it's because I've been living in my parents basement for 5 years and my mind is telling me it's time to get a job and move out on my own."

Don't use the hierarchy to limit yourself, use it to diagnose obstacles which need addressing.

A serious spiritual seeker can pretty much ignore the entire hierarchy and shoot straight for self-transcendence. Although this is rare.

[MM1988]

Yeah ive not had sex for 8 years. Ive tried and tried but it didnt work out for me. I simply cant go out and do pickup now, it seems so stupid and misogynistic to me nowadays. Im basically skipping this and do meditation now. Ive stopped contact with all females I knew, deleted my social medias and im now doing this kind of ascetic lifestyle while trying to keep the strong emotions from not having a relationship or sex in check, they do surface at least 3-4 times a week though. On the other hand if I had relationship and sex in my life I wouldnt be meditating or reading all these books at all, so maybe it all makes sense in the end.

[UDT]

35 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

Yeah ive not had sex for 8 years. Ive tried and tried but it didnt work out for me. I simply cant go out and do pickup now, it seems so stupid and misogynistic to me nowadays. Im basically skipping this and do meditation now. Ive stopped contact with all females I knew, deleted my social medias and im now doing this kind of ascetic lifestyle while trying to keep the strong emotions from not having a relationship or sex in check, they do surface at least 3-4 times a week though. On the other hand if I had relationship and sex in my life I wouldnt be meditating or reading all these books at all, so maybe it all makes sense in the end.

I purely believe that living up to your true nature is what self actualizes your entire perception and experience of reality. You become unbelievably conscious. Thus I´d would challenge you to live up to your desires and not restrain but use all your energy to go where you wanna go, doesnt matter where that is.

[Pernani]

45 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

Yeah ive not had sex for 8 years. Ive tried and tried but it didnt work out for me. I simply cant go out and do pickup now, it seems so stupid and misogynistic to me nowadays. Im basically skipping this and do meditation now. Ive stopped contact with all females I knew, deleted my social medias and im now doing this kind of ascetic lifestyle while trying to keep the strong emotions from not having a relationship or sex in check, they do surface at least 3-4 times a week though. On the other hand if I had relationship and sex in my life I wouldnt be meditating or reading all these books at all, so maybe it all makes sense in the end.

Don't use that as a limiting belief, I think you can still meditate and read and do whatever you're into even if you're in a relationship, in fact if the relationship is high quality it can serve you in your journey, but yeah you're still gonna have to put a lot of work into getting to that level and who says pickup is all selfish and manipulation ? You can still do it consciously and have a lot of good time in the process but this is just my humble opinion.

[MM1988]

I wouldnt say no to a relationship if it happened (honestly i am also not disciplined enough to say no). But im not chasing it anymore. I tried chasing it and not chasing it, and it didnt happen either way, but Im in the process of making peace with it.

[dorg]

@Hardkill each of us imagines s/he is a certain way in this world. If we experience ourself as in some way inadequate, then that is because we imagine we are! Hence we can imagine ourselves some other more capable way!

There is no substitute for confidence and courage. If you think, ie imagine, you don't have much of this think/imagine again. Live as you imagine you can - and you can and do.

Edited March 17, 2018 by dorg

[Moreira]

When you fully realize the illusory nature of the self all their needs can be cut: self-steem, belonginess, relationships...

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Shiva said:

Maslow forgot WiFi as one of the basic needs

Cause that one sits under the whole pyramid

[Hardkill]

On 3/16/2018 at 7:58 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill You can work on multiple facets of your life and the hierarchy at once.

It would be a mistake to start only from the bottom of the hierarchy and not do any other work (like meditation) because you tell yourself, "Well, Maslow said I cannot learn to meditate until I satisfy all my sexual cravings, because meditation is a need higher up the hierarchy."

Instead, how the hierarchy can be useful is by showing you where you need more development and what is holding you back. For example, you meditate for a year and you notice you're not getting the great results you expected, so you ask yourself, "Hmmmm... I wonder what my problem is? Oh, yeah! It's because I haven't had sex in 5 years and my mind is driving me crazy to be in relationship. Maybe I should fix this issue. Or maybe it's because I've been living in my parents basement for 5 years and my mind is telling me it's time to get a job and move out on my own."

Don't use the hierarchy to limit yourself, use it to diagnose obstacles which need addressing.

A serious spiritual seeker can pretty much ignore the entire hierarchy and shoot straight for self-transcendence. Although this is rare.

Ah okay, that makes a lot more sense. 

So, I should work on all facets of my life from the bottom top of the Maslow pyramid at about the same time. However, some facets should be worked on PREDOMINANTLY compared to the other facets including usually the higher level facets of my life. Correct?

[Key Elements]

On 17/03/2018 at 2:33 PM, Shiva said:

Maslow forgot WiFi as one of the basic needs

 

On 17/03/2018 at 8:39 PM, Leo Gura said:

Cause that one sits under the whole pyramid

No Leo, it's the battery that sits under the whole pyramid. Otherwise, WiFi wouldn't work. 

[Key Elements]

@Hardkill I would continue to work on job, career, and life purpose no matter what -- on a daily basis. It will get meaningful as you go along and will help you to survive.

[Monkey-man]

You don’t skip them, that doesn’t work; you transcend/sacrifice your psychological needs.

[Forestluv]

@Hardkill This is all part of The Game. Spinning your wheels trying to figure it out. How things *should* be. Worrying about making the *right* decision. The desire to acheive  “spiritual” places and self actualization is the same mind dynamic as trying to get laid, to get a bigger dick with pump kits, to make a lot of money, to gain power or become famous. 

And why follow Maslow? He never grasped the key to awakening - that the self has no free will. Maslow believed in The Story we tell about the self. He was limited to the character he played and never awakened to the self illusion. 

What of the people that awakened through despair, depression, drug addiction, prison? How were Buddha’s familial and platonic relationships? And 99% of the so-called “higher tier” people I’ve met at meditation/personal development retreats/workshops are spinning their wheels trying to figure out ego, self, compassion, freedom, enlightenment. Trying to reach some place that isn’t here and now.

The Big Lie is that there is “something out there”. An ill-defined, ambiguos “something”. Maslow’s pyramid describes self actualization as “reaching one’s potential”. It’s a catchy phrase, but wtf does it mean? What is potential? What is success? That crap got programmed into our brains as kids. Images of potential and success got portayed onto us from adults. And we fall for The Story and chase it. We repress the “bad” parts of us and try to present the “good”. Yet we never quite measure up - we’re never quite good enough. As long as we buy into The Story, the seeking and chasing never ends. I spent 28 yrs as an adult seeking. Thounds of hours meditating and listening to talks. Hundreds of books. And one day I took a hefty dose of psilocybin and the whole Story came crashing down. That’s the Big Shift - NOT trying to write a “better” Story. 

Right now is IT. THIS IS IT. What IS. This IS is no “better” or “worse” than any other IS. It’s all one enormous IS. A guy having sex IS a guy having sex. A duck pooping IS a duck pooping. Someone meditating by a fancy alter IS someone meditating by a fancy alter. A thought about Maslow’s pyramid IS a thought about Maslow’s pyramid. None has more relevance than another. 

It’s all an intellectual distraction. Rather than chase half-baked intellectual concepts, become a great observer. Get curious. Observe your thoughts, your feelings, the world around you. Challenge your Story. Challenge the beliefs that were programned into you.  Observe how your mind-body has been conditioned to respond a certain way to stimuli. Sit still and observe. Let go. Everything is within you.