Buddha: "Consciousness is not self"

[NikitaW]

39 minutes ago, hundreth said:

This is the interpretation I've found from most experienced Buddhist practitioners. Any attachment to Self, higher or lower is yet another form of ignorance which leads to suffering. Which is exactly why I posed the question here. 

I've posted a few Wikipedia links and articles from various sources on the web, and some of you have questioned them - which is fine! I have not been studying primarily using these sources, they are just supplementary readings. Primarily, I've been learning from the book Walpola Rahula's "What the Buddha Taught."

https://www.amazon.com/What-Buddha-Taught-Expanded-Dhammapada/dp/0802130313

"Rahula is a scholar monk who trained in the Theravadan tradition in Ceylon. His succinct, clear overview of Buddhist concepts has never been surpassed. It is the standard."

He talks in depth about Buddha's interpretation of the Self, and is very explicit about the distinctions between lower self and Higher Self. He demonstrates through Buddha's own words how he taught not to identify with any idea of self. That nothing is permanent. I highly suggest this book.

Yes it is the path of non self that leads to less delusion they say. I will have a look at this book thank you. 

The monastery from Buddhadasa where i actually go again today is a Theravada buddhist tradition too. Suan Mokkh (Garden of liberation) I recommend if one goes to thailand to do a 10 day silent retreat there. At the end they even give out all lot of books for free. Of course one should donate something if he has enough money. The meditation instructions are very basic that been told there since this is a common place for beginner foreigner to do retreat, but if you are more serious you can stay at the hermitage also for free, live with the monks and you get provided with food from the alms round. Maybe they can give me some pdfs from his books so i can upload them for you guys.

These are good books from him.

[robdl]

Hundreth - you will come to find that it was a part of your process: the mind distracting, identifying, gratifying, and perpetuating itself with spiritual conceptual knowledge and questions, which makes way for a realization that the only way to go is inward, beyond mind/thought objects. 

[Dodo]

10 hours ago, hundreth said:

Thanks for the response. I understand that consciousness is a loaded word, but the Buddha did not teach "Absolute Consciousness" unless you're arguing semantics. For simplicity, let's consider consciousness to be more or less synonymous with "Atman" or the "Para-Brahman" - the Absolute. But the Buddha explicitly speaks in depth about there being no Atman. No absolute or eternal soul to grasp to.

All is Not Self: The Buddha’s Rejection of Atman

https://inthewordsofbuddha.wordpress.com/2015/08/02/all-is-not-self-the-buddhas-rejection-of-atman/

Either I'm misunderstanding you, I'm misunderstanding the Buddha, or you both disagree on this. I appreciate your kindness in actually speaking to this.

There is no Self is the same as saying the Self is nothingness.  It's not a thing,  so obviously you can't grasp at it, but it's who you are eternally.

[Shanmugam]

@hundreth It is actually very simple.. When there is no self, what is left is true self... But don't try to understand 'true self'.. You only know the illusory self. True self is not an object of knowledge. What you are doing is fine.. Neither Buddhism nor Vedanta is an ideology or philosophy. They are just different teaching devices. But they point to the same truth.

 

By the way, the sutta that I gave you was the direct original Pali sutta that talks about Anatta. No matter which monk you talk to, he is giving the interpretation from that same verse. (Unless Buddha talked to him in his dreams ).

 

[hundreth]

3 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

@hundreth It is actually very simple.. When there is no self, what is left is true self... But don't try to understand 'true self'.. You only know the illusory self. True self is not an object of knowledge. What you are doing is fine.. Neither Buddhism nor Vedanta is an ideology or philosophy. They are just different teaching devices. But they point to the same truth.

 

By the way, the sutta that I gave you was the direct original Pali sutta that talks about Anatta. No matter which monk you talk to, he is giving the interpretation from that same verse. (Unless Buddha talked to him in his dreams ).

 

Thank you. I took a more in depth look at what you wrote earlier. I'll continue studying, but will do my best to not allow this to interrupt the more important direct experience work.

Edited March 15, 2018 by hundreth

[robdl]

21 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Thank you. I took a more in depth look at what you wrote earlier. I'll continue studying, but will do my best to not allow this to interrupt the more important direct experience work.

well said about doing the actual work.  Have you tried a couple of different practices - self-inquiry, zazen, vipassana, etc. - and found that one resonates more than the other?  The practice (and the theory behind the practice) that touches you the most deeply is the key thing, I think.

The conceptual framework of a particular tradition can really intellectually resonate, but if the practice employed in the tradition doesn't seem to click at all with you, then it's probably not the tradition for you.

Edited March 15, 2018 by robdl

[hundreth]

13 minutes ago, robdl said:

well said about doing the actual work.  Have you tried a couple of different practices - self-inquiry, zazen, vipassana, etc. - and found that one resonates more than the other?  The practice (and the theory behind the practice) that touches you the most deeply is the key thing, I think.

The conceptual framework of a particular tradition can really intellectually resonate, but if the practice employed in the tradition doesn't seem to click at all with you, then it's probably not the tradition for you.

Good question. So far I've mostly resonated with zazen and do nothing techniques. The self inquiry style meditations tend to turn into somewhat frustrating experiences where I feel like I'm spinning my wheels.

I'll continue experimenting with different practices. Appreciate your insights!

[robdl]

34 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Good question. So far I've mostly resonated with zazen and do nothing techniques. The self inquiry style meditations tend to turn into somewhat frustrating experiences where I feel like I'm spinning my wheels.

I'll continue experimenting with different practices. Appreciate your insights!

The key to self-inquiry is to treat everything --- EVERYTHING --- as just objective content, and draw awareness inwardly into the subject by asking the question "Who is aware of this (frustrated) feeling?"   When you are frustrated during self-inquiry, the frustration is happening due to subtle identification arising -- identifying with the feeling "frustration", which results in "I am frustrated."  The mind is extremely mischievous and seductive, and is pulling awareness into identification with feelings of uncertainty, frustration, doubt, confusion, and desire for progress -- avoid this trap!   See that these are all mind objects, and inquire as to who is aware of these various feelings.  These mind waves will subsequently subside.

Edited March 15, 2018 by robdl