Posted March 14, 2018 Which one is better for the world from an enlightened point of view? Globalism seem to be the obvious pick here, but when you rethink it deeper, nationalism might not be that bad? What do you think? Isn't it so, yes or no? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2018 This is a highly political issue. I wish I could give you an honest opinion, but I know we have to behave on here . I would say if everybody were awakened though, either one would be fine. At the very least there would be peace. "You will soon be going about like the converted, and the revivalist, warning people against all the sins of which you have grown tired."- Oscar Wilde Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2018 In terms of managing a system you can make the point that it is way easier to manage a collection of small systems interacting in a predefined way instead of one big system. Look at your body, it's an ordered collection of many small systems that make up bigger and bigger systems, finally leading to you. So, If you have a set of nation states they can all individually have different kinds of laws for different kinds of cultures so that every culture is happy with its laws. And then these states can interact in pre-defined ways (contracts, human right laws, etc.) to make business with each other if they want to. This way they can even set up systems that ensure that war is held down. For example they can build unions and what not for that sake. The general problem I have with globalism is the following: I don't know one natural or man-made system that works that isn't made of a collection of little systems interacting with each other. So, please change my mind. They want reality, so I give 'em a fatal dosage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Azrael said: The general problem I have with globalism is the following: I don't know one natural or man-made system that works that isn't made of a collection of little systems interacting with each other. So, please change my mind. Societies are NOT man-made systems. They are self-driving, self-evolving organisms. You could not stop globalism with World War III. Higher levels of organization are going to happen whether you like it or not. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: Societies are NOT man-made systems. They are self-driving, self-evolving organisms. I think that's a rather narrow way of viewing society. When one looks at water for instance, the higher order property of 'fluidity' emerges from the interactions of H2O molecules. As such, the property of fluidity could be said to be a H2O-made system, even though no single molecule of H20 displays the property of fluidity alone. Society can be seen as both a man-made system, as well as an organism -- these views are not mutually exclusive and depend totally on the scale at which the observation is made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2018 @StephenK The point is, nobody controls these systems. You could be the richest most powerful dictator on the planet, and you will still not succeed in controlling society. It is totally beyond you. In fact, the more you try to control it, the more likely the system is to slap you upside the head. Dictators don't live very long. Just look at what happens to people like Hitler. Emperors have been trying to control society for thousands of years, and it never really works. All attempts to control it fail. It controls you more than you control it. The water molecule does not control the flow of the river. The river is shaped by a much higher intelligence. Life is constantly moving in the direction of tighter integration, higher organization, and greater unity at the cost of individuality. Unity is bootstrapping itself. You are but a pawn in its game. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2018 Just now, Leo Gura said: @StephenK The point is, nobody controls these systems. You could be the richest most powerful dictator on the planet, and you will still not succeed in controlling society. It is totally beyond you. True, but a powerful man can affect and shape society to some degree, right? Even though no powerful man kan control it? George Soros has affected Europe to such a degree that it would be a total different continent today, if it wasn't for him. Isn't it so, yes or no? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said: True, but a powerful man can affect and shape society to some degree, right? Even though no powerful man kan control it? George Soros has affected Europe to such a degree that it would be a total different continent today, if it wasn't for him. Everyone is shaping society towards more unity, basically. Even those who fight against unity, end up creating more unity. Like Trump for example. His attempts will fail and more unity will result in the long-run. Hitler ended up unifying Europe. The opposite of what his ego wanted. All boundaries are ultimately unsustainable. You cannot create a tribe and have it survive. That is ego. It will eventually die. What globalism is showing is the unsustainability of artificial tribal boundaries. And nationalism is the ego's reaction against that. It works just like Spiral Dynamics. The pendulum swings from ego to the collective, and back and forth as it moves up the spiral towards greater unity. What is Stage Turquoise? Global, universal consciousness. That is where we are headed in the very long run. In the short run, there will be ups and downs and ego backlashes. Trump is a collective ego backlash, trying to maintain the homeostasis of the status quo. The reason Trump voters are nostalgic for the past is because they are not evolving fast enough with the rapidly accelerating change of society. But evolution must proceed. You cannot stop evolution from happening. Rather than cling to the past, you've got to evolve. But ego hates to evolve, so it does the backlash. But in the end the ego always loses and evolution always wins. Selflessness triumphs over selfishness. Because the truth is on selflessness' side. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2018 34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Life is constantly moving in the direction of tighter integration, higher organization, and greater unity at the cost of individuality. Unity is bootstrapping itself. You are but a pawn in its game. Agreed. When it comes to spirituality, nature, economics, data transfer, fluids, societies etc, there is a constant drive to follow the path of least resistance -- that is, movements towards systems of greater, unimpeded flow. It's really quite beautiful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2018 23 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Societies are NOT man-made systems. They are self-driving, self-evolving organisms. @Leo Gura, yeah but this is just one part of a society. The other consists of laws, models, actions etc. that are used to organize the group. And these systems are clearly man-made and the self-evolving organism lives in conjunction with this system. 23 hours ago, Leo Gura said: You could not stop globalism with World War III. True, because it's natural that a society that is self-evolving will get bigger and bigger until it collapses. A good societal system could prevent that by designing ground rules so that it never gets so far. 23 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Higher levels of organization are going to happen whether you like it or not. I wouldn't be so sure. I think we are peaking rn with our globalism so that it will collapse at some point because the system cannot function any further. The question is, how long will it need to go down. But surely, every system that gets too big will fall apart and build new little systems. They want reality, so I give 'em a fatal dosage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2018 The theme of the history of invention is freedom & connectivity. So, both. MEDITATIONS TOOLS ActualityOfBeing.com GUIDANCE SESSIONS NONDUALITY LOA My Youtube Channel THE TRUE NATURE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2018 @Leo Gura Then why have have most large empires fallen apart? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Emne said: @Leo Gura Then why have have most large empires fallen apart? Empires fall because they are dictatorial and egotistical. If a system is built on ego and falsehood, it will ultimately collapse. White supremacy and racism, for example, are collapsing. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2018 On 14-3-2018 at 1:21 PM, Leo Gura said: greater unity at the cost of individuality. That scares me, should we be scared? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2018 Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Steph1988 said: That scares me, should we be scared? Don't worry, before that happens, AI will make all of us humans obsolete We will become monkey's in our AI overlord's zoos. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 @Leo Gura Maybe we already are?! Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all of the barriers within yourself that you have built against it - A Course in Miracles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) First of all, I do not think there is an "enlightened point of view" when it comes to e.g. politics. Enlightenment is just living your true nature. Some are naturally more conservative or nationalistic, some are more liberal or globalist. Anyone who tells you otherwise is attempting to conflate her personality with spirituality. If we want to talk about globalism, we have to acknowledge the historical waves towards globalism that inevitably receded with time. Alexander The Great, Rome, Genghis Khan, the great European empires, etc. Now we have the latest iteration with multinational corporations at the helm that really took off after the fall of the Soviet empire. It's facing major blowback from the people of the world who certainly do not want to be pawns in some oligarchs' game. I'm sticking with my prediction that the latest iteration of globalism will recede within 6-7 years. Within 25 years there will be 1000 times the number of enlightened people on Earth there are now. Enlightened people, liberal or conservative, do not want to be someone's pets or pawns. Whatever shape global integration takes, it will not swallow up localism but will respect it. It will be a whole different ballgame. Edited March 16, 2018 by Haumea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 16, 2018 Individuality is overrated Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
