Spiral Dynamics Questions Thread

[Chrissy j]

This model is confusing for me sometimes and sometimes hard for me to apply. I have some questions I want help with, and figured if you do too then here is a place! More then questions would be great too. Any insight helps.

 

Stage Blue- Would I still be stage blue if I’m absolutistic on anything? Like what about things like life purpose? Wouldn’t life purpose do good for every human being on the planet? Or is that too black and white of thinking? Or say humans doing personal development? Wouldn’t it be absolute that every human being could benefit from this work? Is this still stage blue or...?

 

Stage Yellow- How is it that EVERY perspective is partial? Aren’t some perspective dead wrong and just don’t correlate to the world at all on a relative level? Like if someone says we don’t live on a planet, dead wrong, wouldn’t it be false? The only way I see this working is through an enlightened consciousness where all ideas die, and reality is literally just a perspective. The materialist paradigm would have to die, and would that just be orange leaving to green? I don’t even know. How could 1% of the world be at this all partial perspectives perspective even? Any help?

Edited March 14, 2018 by Chrissy j

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Chrissy j said:

How is it that EVERY perspective is partial?

Name one perspective which is complete, encompassing everything there is?

Other than the Absolute (which is a non-perspective).

You will notice, there is truth to be found in almost every perspective. It will be a partial truth, but some truth nonetheless. For example, look at the world from Hitler's perspective and see what truth you can find there. There will be some.

Don't think of perspective as an individual belief like, "The sky is red." Perspective is much bigger than one true/false belief. Perspective is more like a worldview or a philosophy.

Stage Blue is like typical conservative American thinking: clear right/wrong, absolute good/bad, Christian morality, Bible is true, God is an authoritarian father figure, society has rigid rules an hierarchy which must be obeyed rather than innovated upon. Go to church, pray, serve in the military, defend the Constitution, be nice to your parents, don't have sex before marriage, gays are going to hell, Islam is wrong, never do drugs, never question your elders, never break the rules, rise up the power hierarchy by following the rules, respect your superiors, know your place in the social order, sacrifice for your tribe, be loyal, be a patriot, salute the flag, etc.

[Monkey-man]

Ppl tend to misunderstand spiral dynamics very easy. Spiral dynamics is not so much about your beliefs, beliefs are outcomes and secondary,  it’s  more about your state of being. Blue is when you become fully conscious of yourself, your actions, thoughts, habits, emotions. Fully self-disciplined, it’s emergence of the cold witness. Old Testament where God punishes and watches everyone is representation of how to become Blue, here God is only a witness, not yet all-loving Green dude like in New Testament. Before this witness emerged one is still very much Red because one is still slave to compulsive thoughts, emotions, habits, stereotypical actions. See, you might be big thinker and think that you are Orange or Yellow but if thinking is not under control and your mind can’t be in silence - you are not Orange, but Red. Orange is cold rational mind so it should be free from compulsive stereotypical thoughts because otherwise it’s not cold and rational, and Red is compulsive one, with compulsive unregulated thoughts even if it is highly intellectual thoughts.

[Monkey-man]

And Green is not compulsive emotions/feelings. Green is heart-based feelings, this is something either above our ordinary emotions/feelings or transformed state, another side of the coin of our ordinary feelings, I think it’s what people call as ‘religious feelings’ such as agape, peace etc all those which makes us just to be in the moment, unlike Red compulsions which make us to act and go from point A to point B.

[tsuki]

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Name one perspective which is complete, encompassing everything there is?

@Leo Gura Isn't it the perspective that "all perspectives are partial"?

[Forestluv]

9 hours ago, Chrissy j said:

Stage Blue- Would I still be stage blue if I’m absolutistic on anything? Like what about things like life purpose? Wouldn’t life purpose do good for every human being on the planet? Or is that too black and white of thinking? Or say humans doing personal development? Wouldn’t it be absolute that every human being could benefit from this work? Is this still stage blue or...?

What is "life purpose", "good" and "benefit"? Who decides what is "beneficial"? These are abstract concepts with many different view points. 

What if someone started personal development and became depressed for years with an attempted suicide. Would this be "good" or "bad" for them?

Now imagine that person reaches complete despair and has an awakening. They clearly see the underlying truth of their depression/suffering and can let go of their attachments. They experience deep liberation and creates a program to assist depressed people toward awakenings.  Would the personal development that caused years of depression be considered "good" or "bad" for them? Who decides what is good or bad? The individual? The community? A mathematical algorithm? 

A stage blue perspective would be more like: Everyone is born with Original Sin. Only God can forgive sins. Going to church confession to ask God for forgiveness is *good*. Sinning without confession is *bad*. . . This was the messaging I received in a Stage Blue strict Catholic upbringing. Every time I questioned these beliefs I was told The Bible says so and the Bible is the word of God. Black or white. There was no room to discuss shades of gray such as: is a *little sin* without confession just a *little bad*? What is the threshold "badness" for something to be classified as a "sin"? A white lie? Lusting for a secretary? . . . Why are some proclamations in the Bible considered sin (lying to your parents) but others are not considered sin (wearing clothing with mixed fibers)? How can a sin be absolute if different denominations disagree on whether it is a sin?. . . 

NO ONE in my upbringing wanted to engage in these questions. They kept coming back saying that I either believe in God and His teachings or I don't. Don't question God - he can work in mysterious ways. The bible says so. . . 

[Ayilton]

So How do you in which stage are you  ?! I used to place my self as a green  , but thinking clearly I am more like blue and orange 

[Mussi]

On 14-3-2018 at 2:46 PM, tsuki said:

@Leo Gura Isn't it the perspective that "all perspectives are partial"?

Even that statement is a partial perspective. Once you realize that the idea that nothing is absolute, even the statement that nothing is absolute, and you can begin to wrap your head around this and accept this aspect of reality 2nd tier (yellow & turqoise) is in sight. 

On 15-3-2018 at 5:41 AM, Ayilton said:

So How do you in which stage are you  ?! I used to place my self as a green  , but thinking clearly I am more like blue and orange 

There are a few free online self testing resources out there which can help you determine where you are at. But honest self examinationand a good study of the different levels can do the trick as well and you will come out having learned much more plus having a vague idea of what is ahead of you in terms of self development. 

Here are a few places you can do a small self test: http://www.jobeq.com/vsq.php

This self test is great, but it is in Dutch, so not useful for most: https://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/personality/quizshow.php?title=NjQ2NTc3&q=1

This test gives you an idea of your knowledge about Spiral dynamics: https://survey.valuematch.net/500003

A few statements have been made on what the blue stage represents. In my opinion a typical Christian absolutist good vs bad point of view is only an indicator of the blue state if this is the prevalent point of reference in the context where you grew up. You can be an atheist or even agnostic and be in te blue stage as well if that is the prevalent way of thinking where you grew up. For example a child growing up in an atheist academic family who embraces scientific facts as the only reality, believing that people who believe in only what can be proven are smart and religious people are stupid may be just as 'blue' as a christian growing up in a fundamental Christian society or a kid growing up in a Muslim family who believe that following their religion is good, and believeing anything else is bad. What I'm trying to say is that Spiral Dynamics should be able to be used across countries and cultures regardless of cultural bias.  

 

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Mussi