Suffering

[Tearos]

Does suffering really exist if there is no one to experience the suffering?

Argument: I can't really experience suffering because I don't really exist. Why are we then so concerned about others' suffering?

Thank you in advance,

Tearos/Fred

[Neo]

Because you as god wanted to play this game in which it's part of the human condition.

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, Tearos said:

Why are we then so concerned about others' suffering?

Because you know they think their suffering is real and important.

[Nahm]

@Tearos You can’t suffer, there is nothing to effect You. You can dream like a mofo though. In Your dream, Fred can suffer. Fred’s suffering diminishes greatly as Fred embodies You (awakens).   It feels really great. When You see You, as someone else (asleep), suffering, You are inspired. You experience You between You and You and it’s love. There is a simple way, not easy, but simple. Suffering is the truth not agreeing with how Fred is choosing to look at a situation. If Fred puts down conditions, if Fred let’s go of the idea of Fred....

For deeper, more serious research consider giving this a read...

 

[AstralProjection]

This is ridiculous, of course there is suffering. A part of infinity is suffering, and suffering occurs from attachment and lack of knowledge.

[Faceless]

10 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

This is ridiculous, of course there is suffering

True. This movement is an actual process that takes place. 

 

11 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

A part of infinity is suffering

Infinity lol. Sorry it’s that word. 

13 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

suffering occurs from attachment and lack of knowledge.

Lack of knowledge no. I would say knowledge being a part of the structure that forms thought is the root of all psychological suffering.

[AstralProjection]

10 hours ago, Faceless said:

Lack of knowledge no. I would say knowledge being a part of the structure that forms thought is the root of all psychological suffering.

I mean universal knowledge. And the Buddha agrees when he says that the root of suffering is caused by wrong desire, attachment, and lack of knowledge or ignorance. All paraphrased of course. Take for instance advanced civilizations they would have much less suffering. Why though? Because they have evolved their knowledge base.

[Neo]

I understand the root of suffering to be (and I'm not sure where I read or picked this up), that if you need something you are in a state of wanting, and if you have something, you are in a state of fear that you will loose it.

I guess also you could play a simple game and try to conceive your own paradise, and put in there all that you want, an element of danger when climbing a mountain, an element of fear when hunting, and element of difficulty when conquering a woman, and you really end up with the current world exactly as it is... for you. I think!

Edited March 13, 2018 by Neo

[Ibn Sina]

For the next few days, meditate on this magnificent piece of work.

 

[DocHoliday]

Jeez guys, some of you really need to get their conceptual understanding straight.
First off, there's the distinction between mental and physical suffering (pain). The latter will always remain and be there, no matter what (unless you train like a zen monk or something.... unimaginable hard and straining training that is, that will somehow get you used to physical pain so you won't be as reactive towards it as you currently would be)

Then there's the mental side of suffering which is what the Buddha would refer to when he said "Enlightenment is the end of suffering", or something very similar along those lines. As some already have correctly pointed out, this side of suffering is diminished greatly or even completely eliminated through enlightenment. The reason we then proceed to care about the suffering of "others" is because we see ourselves suffering within them, it gets reflected, so to say; therefore we obviously emphasize with them and care about them, even though a Buddha would never go about it by adopting the suffering or sharing it in some fashion, no, he would always keep a smile [  ] on his face as he is able to see himself in the other person and has fundamentally realised that this type of suffering is unneccessary and can be overcome through self-realisation. It is an act that is put on by others/infinite consciousness, yet the buddha has essentially stopped acting through his limited role and realised that one is free of any bound roles and thus, does no longer proceed to choose (mental) suffering when he can do otherwise. 

EDIT: Suffering in its mental form always arises in a correlating fashion that is directly proportional to the degree of separation (to the degree you hold yourself as a separate, individual ego that is somehow in control over what happens and occurs)

Edited March 13, 2018 by DocHoliday

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, AstralProjection said:

I mean universal knowledge. And the Buddha agrees when he says that the root of suffering is caused by wrong desire, attachment, and lack of knowledge or ignorance. All paraphrased of course. Take for instance advanced civilizations they would have much less suffering. Why though? Because they have evolved their knowledge base.

One sufferes psychologically because they think. Thinking is the process of desire, will, motive, volition. And the only way they can think is because knowledge influenced that very thought. The capacity to contain Knowledge created the problem and we think it can fix that problem. But thought being memory, knowledge, and experience is a function that thrives off of problems. Thought creates problems even if they were not actully there. Also thought creates the distinction or seperatness between the observer and the observed which brings about this conflict. 

And there is no wrong or right desire. Desire is desire. That is a trick the bias/prejudice nature of thought plays on you. Thought is tricky, it doesn’t even know when it is in movement. It’s so tricky you think you are actully the entity you call you lol. 

Psychologicaly to meet ‘new’ problems with  old solutions is ignorance. If you go through this carefully you will see what I mean. 

Thought psychologically is the cause of all problems, conflicts, and suffering. You can observe this in your own thinking if you can brush aside all the bias that thought has put together over the generations. If you don’t see that thought is the cause for all these problems you are in for a life of illusion and deception my friend. 

Thought creates multiple solutions to solve problems that thought itlsef created. 

Lol 

watch out thought will get ya ?

 

 

[Ether]

@Faceless Yes, sometimes i try to fix problems in the future that dont really exist.

[DocHoliday]

12 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Thought psychologically is the cause of all problems, conflicts, and suffering. You can observe this in your own thinking if you can brush aside all the bias that thought has put together over the generations. If you don’t see that thought is the cause for all these problems you are in for a life of illusion and deception my friend.

 

@Faceless Watch out... it's not inherent to thoughts that they create problems, it's much rather the identification with thought. Thinking isn't bad in and of itself, because you can't stop thinking, it's impossible. It's the identification with a certain thought or a compiled group of combined thoughts that's going to affect you in every conceivable way, not just in a negative harmful way. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by DocHoliday
Reason for Edit: Grammar

[Faceless]

10 minutes ago, DocHoliday said:

@Faceless Watch out... it's not inherent to thoughts that they create problems, it's much rather the identification with thought. Thinking isn't bad in and of itself, because you can't stop thinking, it's impossible. It's the identification with a certain thought or a compiled group of combined thoughts that's going to affect you in every conceivable way, not just in a negative harmful way. 

without thought there would be no you. Which if not understood creates the conflict and suffering. 

Even Mr Watts would concur. 

And yes I don’t say thinking is good or bad. To choose between each of those opinions is anohter manifestation of thought 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

18 minutes ago, Ether said:

@Faceless Yes, sometimes i try to fix problems in the future that dont really exist.

Yeah lol

[Ether]

@Faceless Even the meditation I just did, thoughts were trying to manipulate to do what they want very subtly, for example I was trying to focus and thought showed up saying: "focus". I think it was trying for me to indentify and think about it!

[Faceless]

The meditator is the meditated 

                    

[Ether]

12 minutes ago, Faceless said:

The meditator is the meditated 

                    

so many paradoxes and contradictions in the spiritual shit

[Faceless]

@EtherYeah that’s thought for yaz. Thought is contradictory by nature. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@Ether

The imposition of one reality for another