Reason for Islam

[mohdanas]

Alright, first of all I have no idea if Mohammed was enlightend or not,  I am focussing on three points, point one is what Islam is,  point two is what it offers to people, and point three is in what time it offered these things to people a.k.a what the world was at that point of time.

Before, I say something, I do not have indepth understanding of all the three points, I have just graced the surface. But, I believe there are people here that do. 

I read about this, and it made me think 

"By the time Jesus was preaching, Caesar Augustus was claiming to be God ( funny, how he wasn't wrong in a way lol ), but he couldn't stop Christianity from spreading." 

Now, to my understanding the major essence of Islam is its LAW SYSTEM, rules and relegation that are spread out of its own life philosophy. 

Therefore, it offers people a new system of making decision about living life, from various affairs such as marriage to business to even basic like eating food and drinking water.

Now, If we go back to the time when it would have originated, what do we see, people are themselves claiming to be god, or the law are of their own making, where they own are supreme power that can amend the laws, the sole purpose of laws are living in order and justice which it doesn't really provide. They are not meant to lift people but to oppress and rule over them. 

So, I think a new system which is not just philosophy of life but also branch out into formulation of new set of law and order with the latest understanding of world at that point of time. I think, it would have been fascinating for people, it places god as the supreme and law giver, the rules cannot be changed, and Islam lifted even women according to those times. 

So, I think, it is because of this nature of Islam that it got so much popularity. It would have justified a law system worth having, and a life philosophy worth living at that point in time. 

Thoughts????? 

[Leo Gura]

Islam is not about laws.

Islam literally means "surrender". Surrender to God.

"Jihad" is the inner battle to escape Maya, slay the ego, and become Infinite.

Actualized.org is Jihad.

Ta-da!

[Joseph Maynor]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Islam is not about laws.

Islam literally means "surrender". Surrender to God.

"Jihad" is the inner battle to escape Maya, slay the ego, and become Infinite.

Actualized.org is Jihad.

Ta-da!

Nice!  Islam started by solving a set of problems that the people of that place and time needed to solve.  I look at Islam almost like Confucianism.  It's an all-in-one cultural system for civilization.  Everything is contained within Islam -- from law to government to social rules to marriage to spirituality, etc.  Islam is a great one-sized-fits all system that creates a kind of basis for stable civilization to happen.  All those tribes in Arabia were not unified before Muhammad.  Islam unified the entire Arabian Peninsula and then some after that.  Islam didn't really get influenced too much by Western Philosophy, so it kinda developed on its own.  That's what makes it fascinating to study as a system.  In contrast, Christianity was right at the center of Western Philosophy, so Christian Theology is like a philosophy in its own right.  Islamic theology is much less philosophical, although you do have a certain brand of Islamic Theology that does get philosophical, it just has a different flavor from Western Philosophy.  So, a lot of people don't know how to classify Islam -- is it an eastern or western phenomenon?  I would argue that it's neither.  It straddles both east and west.  Islam is a very fascinating cultural system that solves a lot of problems that come up in human life.  It's a civilization system in a way.  I'm not a Muslim myself, nor am I endorsing Islam.  I look at Islam more as a philosopher looks at any system, religious or secular.  

Edited March 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

Just don't tell the Christian right-wingers, or they will blow a gasket. 

 

[Amit]

Does words have absolute meanings? 

Do most Muslim understand the same thing by these words?

Why they punish kaafirs?

Why Islam ban so many things and impose too many rules?

[Joseph Maynor]

53 minutes ago, Amit said:

Does words have absolute meanings? 

Do most Muslim understand the same thing by these words?

Why they punish kaafirs?

Why Islam ban so many things and impose too many rules?

I think social cohesion requires relinquishing freedom.  Think about it.  This is one of the sources of culture mucking people up.  Every time order is prioritized in a society, individual freedom goes bye bye.  Look at Confucianism.  You have to act a certain way if you live in Confucian China.  You don't just get to do whatever you want to.  But that brings a kind of order and harmony to society.  Very agricultural values, right?  This would contrast sharply with the more independent nomadic hunter/gatherer values.  Hunter-gatherers have all the freedom, but no security, no stability.  So, there's an interesting dynamic going on where freedom is inversely-proportionate to security.  The more more group security you want, the less freedom individuals can have.  The more freedom individuals have, the less security the group gets.  Just thinking out loud here.  Group thinking is the death-knell of individualism.  If you go to China you can really see this issue play itself out in high-relief.  You can start to see the advantages and disadvantages of the Individualism vs. Collectivism debate. 

Islam is an interesting solution to the Individualism vs. Collectivism problem.  Yeah -- you're an individual in Islam who stands on your own merit, but you're judged by God's Law, which all Muslims are compelled to adhere to.  Islam believes that it knows something about God's Law.  So, that's where you get the reduction of individualism.  You can't just do what you want and be a Muslim.  There's certain rules you gotta follow.  And that creates the one-mind, or the collectivism, leading to -- unity, security, safety, order, harmony, shared values, civilization, etc.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivism

Edited March 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Amit said:

Does words have absolute meanings? 

Do most Muslim understand the same thing by these words?

Why they punish kaafirs?

Why Islam ban so many things and impose too many rules?

Because ego corrupts all spiritual endeavors. It's only a question of degree and style.

The more popular a spiritual teaching becomes, the more it gets corrupted by ego.

Christianity and Islam have both becomes their own worse enemies. The devil has co-opted both long ago.

The first thing the devil does is co-opt truth and turn it into falsehood. In the same way that the first thing a cuckoo bird does after it hatches is kill all the other eggs, so it can pretend to be the genuine article.

[Monkey-man]

Social system in Islam was more of a later add-on. Originally Islam is more about your inner life, not about how to structure society.

I think that one of the many reasons for creation of Islam lies in the historical context of Abrahamic religions. Judaism was rules-based or mind-based, Christianity was faith-based or heart-based, and Islam was called to combine faith and rules, heart and mind. Bhakti and Jnana, 

Question might appear: why half of Quran seems to be as a spiritual regress comparing to New Testament? Quran's original scripts were arrived in the hands of sultans or kings, there is historical evidence that they added things like 'killing non-believers' to justify their political agendas. I've read that when enlightened masters read Quran they can feel that half of it has very high vibrational frequencies, i.e. its coming from higher planes of consciousness in its pure unedited form, and other half has lower frequencies, i.e. it was reinterpreted by editors using human emotions and human thoughts.

[Joseph Maynor]

12 minutes ago, Monkey-man said:

Social system in Islam was more of a later add-on. Originally Islam is more about your inner life, not about how to structure society.

I think that one of the many reasons for creation of Islam lies in the historical context of Abrahamic religions. Judaism was rules-based or mind-based, Christianity was faith-based or heart-based, and Islam was called to combine faith and rules, heart and mind. Bhakti and Jnana, 

Question might appear: why half of Quran seems to be as a spiritual regress comparing to New Testament? Quran's original scripts were arrived in the hands of sultans or kings, there is historical evidence that they added things like 'killing non-believers' to justify their political agendas. I've read that when enlightened masters read Quran they can feel that half of it has very high vibrational frequencies, i.e. its coming from higher planes of consciousness in its pure unedited form, and other half has lower frequencies, i.e. it was reinterpreted by editors using human emotions and human thoughts.

Even during Muhammad's life, he virtually took over all of Arabia.  Islam has always been group-oriented thing, even in Muhammad's day.  Sure, there were individualists, but from day one Muhammad was a political leader as much as a spiritualist.

"The Arab tribes in the rest of Arabia then formed a confederation and during the Battle of the Trench (March–April 627) besieged Medina, intent on finishing off Islam. In 628, the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah was signed between Mecca and the Muslims and was broken by Mecca two years later. After the signing of the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah many more people converted to Islam. At the same time, Meccan trade routes were cut off as Muhammad brought surrounding desert tribes under his control.  By 629 Muhammad was victorious in the nearly bloodless conquest of Mecca, and by the time of his death in 632 (at the age of 62) he had united the tribes of Arabia into a single religious polity."  [SEE WIKI ARTICLE "Islam"]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Muhammad_(610–632)

Edited March 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Monkey-man]

@Joseph Maynor even prophet probably wasn't free from influence of emotions and thoughts OR it was part of his god-given historical mission, maybe without waging wars it would never spread.

Also, Quran wasn't written by Muhammad. He only verbally revealed what he received, he didn't write anything.

We have to understand that in 600s there's no way to tell people not to make wars. NOWAY. No one would listen to that anyway even if God tells you so. Times were harsh, you either fight with neighbours or die, there was no geography class, people had no 'we all humans' mentality, different nationalities were literally considered as aliens to each other, they had zero info about each other, there's only fear arises when you dunno someone to such great extent. So scripture was written to suit people of those times without chances of being rejected by them.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Monkey-man

[Leo Gura]

All good spiritual teachings must fit the time and culture of the people and the geographic location.

The problem happens when people cling to the teaching without letting it evolve.

If Islam was invented today in America, it would look something like Actualized.org, and if Actualized.org was invented in 600 AD Arabia, it would look something like Islam.

[mohdanas]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

All good spiritual teachings must fit the time and culture of the people and the geographic location.

The problem happens when people cling to the teaching without letting them evolve.

If Islam was invented today in America, it would look something like Actualized.org

hahaha, but I get your point.

[Nahm]

@Leo Gura You are blowing my mind today.

[Amit]

@Leo Gura  in a way, we are all muslims doing jihaad

[Amit]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I think social cohesion requires relinquishing freedom.  Think about it.  This is one of the sources of culture mucking people up.  Every time order is prioritized in a society, individual freedom goes bye bye.  Look at Confucianism.  You have to act a certain way if you live in Confucian China.  You don't just get to do whatever you want to.  But that brings a kind of order and harmony to society.  Very agricultural values, right?  This would contrast sharply with the more independent nomadic hunter/gatherer values.  Hunter-gatherers have all the freedom, but no security, no stability.  So, there's an interesting dynamic going on where freedom is inversely-proportionate to security.  The more more group security you want, the less freedom individuals can have.  The more freedom individuals have, the less security the group gets.  Just thinking out loud here.  Group thinking is the death-knell of individualism.  If you go to China you can really see this issue play itself out in high-relief.  You can start to see the advantages and disadvantages of the Individualism vs. Collectivism debate. 

Islam is an interesting solution to the Individualism vs. Collectivism problem.  Yeah -- you're an individual in Islam who stands on your own merit, but you're judged by God's Law, which all Muslims are compelled to adhere to.  Islam believes that it knows something about God's Law.  So, that's where you get the reduction of individualism.  You can't just do what you want and be a Muslim.  There's certain rules you gotta follow.  And that creates the one-mind, or the collectivism, leading to -- unity, security, safety, order, harmony, shared values, civilization, etc.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivism

This may be the reason given to justify all the devil's work and history you read might be corrupt too. So it is difficult to find out what's correct and what's not.

[Nahm]

@mohdanas You might like this..

 

[sarapr]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Islam is not about laws.

Islam literally means "surrender". Surrender to God.

"Jihad" is the inner battle to escape Maya, slay the ego, and become Infinite.

Actualized.org is Jihad.

Ta-da!

So that's what jihad means 

Today it's taken as murdering others who aren't Muslims . such a 180 degree turn of what it was actually supposed to be 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All good spiritual teachings must fit the time and culture of the people and the geographic location.

The problem happens when people cling to the teaching without letting them evolve.

If Islam was invented today in America, it would look something like Actualized.org, and if Actualized.org was invented in 600 AD Arabia, it would look something like Islam.

It's funny how my first thought when I first found Leo was that he must be the one predicted to come in the future 

[Shin]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Islam is not about laws.

Islam literally means "surrender". Surrender to God.

"Jihad" is the inner battle to escape Maya, slay the ego, and become Infinite.

Actualized.org is Jihad.

Ta-da!

Where are the 72 virgins ?

Are they gluten free ?

I hope so 

[Shanmugam]

9 minutes ago, sarapr said:

So that's what jihad means 

Today it's taken as murdering others who aren't Muslims . such a 180 degree turn of what it was actually supposed to be 

It's funny how my first thought when I first found Leo was that he must be the one predicted to come in the future 

You will find this interesting: http://perennialvision.org/greater-jihad/ .. Tell me if you are able to access the web page; or else I will copy and paste the content here. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, sarapr said:

So that's what jihad means 

Today it's taken as murdering others who aren't Muslims . such a 180 degree turn of what it was actually supposed to be 

Of course, I keep telling you guys, the ego externalizes all spiritual pursuits. It refuses to self-reflect or turn inwards, so it distracts by getting people to seek salvation externally. We see this happen with Islam as well as with Christianity and scientific materialism, and all the other human endeavors. The devil externalizes everything, because the truth can only be found inside. So the name of the game for the devil is to keep your eyes peeled externally.

3 hours ago, Shin said:

Where are the 72 virgins ?

They are God. When you fully realize God, you will understand what Heaven is, and the best way to describe it to an Arab man from 600 AD would be to say: It's like having 72 virgins.

It's a very accurate metaphor.

God will actually make you far happier than having 72 virgins.