Kriya yoga questions and practice issues

[bigzbigi]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@cetus56 Here's a secret Kriya technique only the true masters know: stick some 5-MeO up your butt.

 

What Meo5 does is turning off prioperception for a while so you feel like you don't exist and recalibrating it.. it increases neuroplascity so now you will believe anything you are exposed to. And usually it is spiritual bias. So basicaly it does similar stuff as Kyria yoga. And yes recalibrating will enhance how you feel because now you  become more symmetrical in terms of feeling body and movement...Everything we do is about movement and language and concepts are about movement reduction. So they incorporate movement asymmetry in relation what intuition would do

 

Psyche and ego is one big language based movement reduction (asymmetry) system. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by bigzbigi

[Azrael]

42 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura in the book ‘Kriya yoga exposed’, the author reveals a secret Kriya technique which no Kriya guru has ever mentioned. It will take you straight to Sahaja samadhi. Worthwhile to check out. Also he reviews most of the Kriya gurus and their way of teaching, including the book that you recommend. Unfortunately, he didn’t give that book a very good review. A lot of the techniques in the book you recommended are flat out wrong according to him.

Another problem with the normal Kriya in general is, that it is not a complete system. It's only partially revealed. So you cannot finish the whole practice. There is at least one version I know that is complete, but mostly secret. I think Kriya is a good starting point for people though, but maybe don't spend the rest of your life doing it and get a complete system after some time.

[Lynnel]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura in the book ‘Kriya yoga exposed’, the author reveals a secret Kriya technique which no Kriya guru has ever mentioned. It will take you straight to Sahaja samadhi. Worthwhile to check out. Also he reviews most of the Kriya gurus and their way of teaching, including the book that you recommend. Unfortunately, he didn’t give that book a very good review. A lot of the techniques in the book you recommended are flat out wrong according to him.

I'm not gonna start a non-duality war here but usually saying x w z is wrong and there will be this magic technique is usually done for marketing purposes. Of course every kriya school is gonna be like " no we are the right one, all those are wrong !" - Does that remind you of Europe during the middle ages in any way ?

I don't believe there is a absolute perfect kriya yoga method. It's like driving the car of a certain model, let's say mercedes and arguing about the fact that this model is better than the other, and you must use the MB94 model with shaded windows always and all the other models are garbage.

It's pretty common that even in quite serious books, such as Vedanta by James Swartz, a lot of shitting will be done on other traditions (sometimes for valid reasons but those are easy to discern) - that's just part of the marketing because you want all the disciples to flow to you. Every school has his own "ego" if you wish and as with every existing entity - it wants to survive !

[mohdanas]

On 3/10/2018 at 10:12 AM, Vignan said:

@Leo GuraWill I become intelligent? I mean will my iq levels or studying capacity increases? If yes, to what extent? 

It's because I have goals which I need to achieve in a very short time, for which it actually takes 2 years or more

 

@Vignan

Checkout study skills for this, there is a great series on youtube on the channel called "crash course" and I think relaxation and concentration exercise will definitely boost your learning capacity. 

Also, learn about critical thinking, this is where you actually learn don't just read and learn that, learn to think about what you read, question it, question it more and try to find answers yourself with your current level of understanding of that subject, this will really help, trust me. 

It is important to learn the core concepts, and branch out rest of the learning.

And learning yoga will help you, listen, look at human anatomy and health with scientific models and also through yoga understanding. This might give you an edge? 

Edited March 11, 2018 by mohdanas

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura he gave a long explanation why he thinks that book is not good. I don’t know, but it was pretty convincing.

Edited March 11, 2018 by How to be wise

[moon777light]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura he gave a long explanation why he thinks that book is not good. I don’t know, but it was pretty convincing.

best thing is to DO leos book exercises for a full year and see how you feel. Otherwise you will never know what is good and keep on finding things that contradict one another. Maybe in some near future another guy will discuss how they dislike "kriya yoga exposed' and why is wrong etc..

[Shanmugam]

On 3/11/2018 at 2:51 PM, Leo Gura said:

@How to be wise According to someone, everyone is wrong.

I would suggest reading that book before you judge.. You will understand... You need extraordinary open-mindedness for that. Of course, it will be hard to see that some of your conclusions about Yoga are wrong but I don't think it will be a problem for you.Because you have already realized many times how wrong you were and you have been pretty honest about it. (I have also realized how wrong I was in my past conclusions pretty much a million times in my life). But I do see that you have become very close-minded when it comes to Yoga. Being born in Indian culture and having been soaked in the teachings of Non-duality, Yoga etc for my entire life, there is a possibility that you are wrong and I am right. 

@Lynnel I have criticized James Swartz on certain things and we also exchanged emails after that... Though I don't agree with James Swartz for saying that scriptures are the infallible authority and for making Vedanta sound like an intellectual theory only, I now agree with his comments on Yoga, at least as it is taught in modern days... In fact, his comments on the modern day Yoga are very much in line with Ramana Maharshi, Adhi Shankara etc.

Yoga and Vedanta were not really two different paths in the beginning. But in the modern days, Vedanta is missing its yogic link and Yoga is missing its Vedantic link. I suggest you all be open-minded when it comes to this.  

[Ether]

@Shanmugam The truth has a million paradoxes and contradictions...I dont know what i know anymore...but wait!

 

THat doesnt stop the mind from believing everything!

[Lynnel]

3 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

yoga and Vedanta were not really two different paths in the beginning. But in the modern days, Vedanta is missing its yogic link and Yoga is missing its Vedantic link. I suggest you all be open-minded when it comes to this.  

Could you explain that further please ?

Also, as long as I feel like this it the right path for me, I should be fine, right ?

I mean since we have duality no system can be perfect anyways and every system has to be misleading to some extent let's say 10% and maybe more based on who you are because with your subjectivity this can get confusing.

Aren't we just bickering back and forth like over this pointlessly ? No here you have 10% that are wrong join my school etc.

I remember the old anecdote of the US criticizing the USSR for it's regime and they answered something along the lines of : and you you are beating niggers ! ( There is no perfect society nor perfect anything).

In short, there will always be something wrong !

[Shanmugam]

10 minutes ago, Lynnel said:

Could you explain that further please ?

Also, as long as I feel like this it the right path for me, I should be fine, right ?

I mean since we have duality no system can be perfect anyways and every system has to be misleading to some extent let's say 10% and maybe more based on who you are because with your subjectivity this can get confusing.

Aren't we just bickering back and forth like over this pointlessly ? No here you have 10% that are wrong join my school etc.

I remember the old anecdote of the US criticizing the USSR for it's regime and they answered something along the lines of : and you you are beating niggers ! ( There is no perfect society nor perfect anything).

In short, there will always be something wrong !

11

'Also, as long as I feel like this it the right path for me, I should be fine, right ?'... Yes... Everyone intuitively knows that. But there are some pitfalls that everyone should be aware of.

There are not really multiple paths in essence.. So there is no point in even debating which one is correct... What we call as multiple paths today are some distorted versions of a very simple essential path. I can't write down my 25 years of understanding in one post, but it indeed took a lot of years to find out about that. But feel free to explore my blog. Once you read many pages in it, you may see what I am talking about.

I am no longer in the journey as a seeker. I started out with serious seeking after getting a glimpse in 2002 and it was complete in 2014. For more than two years I was silent about it. Only in the last one year, I was seriously into researching to discover the essence of all spiritual paths. 

You can start by reading these three pages on my blog:

https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/for-seekers-of-liberation/

https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2018/03/01/spiritual-enlightenment-the-groundwork-needed-for-seekers/

https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/kriya-yoga-exposed-by-santatagamana/

[Shanmugam]

@Lynnel I can put it very simply... There are two parts to spiritual path: doing and non-doing...

'Doing' part involves anything that you do.. This is the longest period in a spiritual path.. All kinds of practices including the techniques in Kriya Yoga are part of this. They are intended to purify the mind and body and remove blockages... This 'doing' part has a lot of varieties which may make people think that they are different paths... But the essence is the same: they are just different ways to prepare the ground.

Then comes the 'non-doing' part - This is the most direct approach. But not everyone can succeed with this approach. In fact, for 99% of people they have to do the 'doing' part; after all the blockages are removed, they are ready to abide as the awareness.. The authentic kriya yoga also includes the non-doing part. That is what Lahiri Mahasaya taught. He called it as 'after-effect-poise of Kriya' But what happens in many Kriya yoga organizations is that they focus only on the techniques and completely ignore the ' after-effect-poise of Kriya'. So, they are stuck in some level. They can't go beyond the techniques.

On the other hand, many Vedanta teachers have made the whole path as a just mere theory. They completely understate the 'doing' part. Even though they mention that it is necessary, they don't really teach this part. They just give people a theoretical understanding and give them self-inquiry lessons right away.

But if you look at Buddhism, you will see that both doing and non-doing part are equally emphasized. Shamatha belongs to the 'doing' part and Vippasana belongs to the non-doing part. Buddha classified them as sammasamadhi and sammasati respectively. But Buddhism can be very easily interpreted as nihilism.

Yes... each and every so-called path has pitfalls. But this is not really about one path vs another path. I am simply making the essential thing very clear. It all boils down to 'doing' and 'non-doing'... Hope this clarifies what I am trying to say.

[Alphahedgehog]

Ive came across a problem while doing mahamudra. After returning to neutral position and exhaling i get the sensation of pressure between my temples. After doing 3 mahamudras it hurts quite a bit. Ive tried exhaling on the way up aswell as really concentrating about bringing the energy down but i always end up with the same sensation which is really distracting. Can somebody help me out ?

[robdl]

On 3/12/2018 at 2:49 PM, Shanmugam said:

@Lynnel I can put it very simply... There are two parts to spiritual path: doing and non-doing...

'Doing' part involves anything that you do.. This is the longest period in a spiritual path.. All kinds of practices including the techniques in Kriya Yoga are part of this. They are intended to purify the mind and body and remove blockages... This 'doing' part has a lot of varieties which may make people think that they are different paths... But the essence is the same: they are just different ways to prepare the ground.

Then comes the 'non-doing' part - This is the most direct approach. But not everyone can succeed with this approach. In fact, for 99% of people they have to do the 'doing' part; after all the blockages are removed, they are ready to abide as the awareness.. The authentic kriya yoga also includes the non-doing part. That is what Lahiri Mahasaya taught. He called it as 'after-effect-poise of Kriya' But what happens in many Kriya yoga organizations is that they focus only on the techniques and completely ignore the ' after-effect-poise of Kriya'. So, they are stuck in some level. They can't go beyond the techniques.

On the other hand, many Vedanta teachers have made the whole path as a just mere theory. They completely understate the 'doing' part. Even though they mention that it is necessary, they don't really teach this part. They just give people a theoretical understanding and give them self-inquiry lessons right away.

But if you look at Buddhism, you will see that both doing and non-doing part are equally emphasized. Shamatha belongs to the 'doing' part and Vippasana belongs to the non-doing part. Buddha classified them as sammasamadhi and sammasati respectively. But Buddhism can be very easily interpreted as nihilism.

Yes... each and every so-called path has pitfalls. But this is not really about one path vs another path. I am simply making the essential thing very clear. It all boils down to 'doing' and 'non-doing'... Hope this clarifies what I am trying to say.

re: removal of blockages/purification of body-mind as preparing the ground for realization

I'd be curious to get your opinion on this: wouldn't direct path teachers posit the question "To whom do these impressions/blockages/vasanas belong?"--- intimating that these mental/bodily impressions just form content in consciousness -- ultimately illusory -- and that treating them as real just reinforces the dualistic idea of a purifier?  (Begging the question, why work to purify them if reality can be realized directly)

The direct path/self-inquiry says to draw attention away from sense and thought objects and inwardly toward the subject, such that you become the subject, without objective experience.  "Doing" practices like kriya yoga seem to say to put your attention on these sense/thought objects --- but how can that take you to the source if you develop the practice of turning the mind outward?

Edited March 15, 2018 by robdl

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Alphahedgehog said:

After returning to neutral position and exhaling i get the sensation of pressure between my temples. After doing 3 mahamudras it hurts quite a bit.

Not sure, I have not experienced anything like that.

Do the yoga gently. You shouldn't be exerting much force or effort.

[Shanmugam]

21 hours ago, robdl said:

re: removal of blockages/purification of body-mind as preparing the ground for realization

I'd be curious to get your opinion on this: wouldn't direct path teachers posit the question "To whom do these impressions/blockages/vasanas belong?"--- intimating that these mental/bodily impressions just form content in consciousness -- ultimately illusory -- and that treating them as real just reinforces the dualistic idea of a purifier?  (Begging the question, why work to purify them if reality can be realized directly)

The direct path/self-inquiry says to draw attention away from sense and thought objects and inwardly toward the subject, such that you become the subject, without objective experience.  "Doing" practices like kriya yoga seem to say to put your attention on these sense/thought objects --- but how can that take you to the source if you develop the practice of turning the mind outward?

1

The direct approach will not work just like that for anybody.. Because, , the mind is accustomed to going outward.. Even Ramana Maharshi have talked about other practices like Yoga for the beginners. But don't compare Ramana Maharshi with many neo-advaita teachers who spend their entire life by asking one question 'who is asking this question' for any question that is put to them..  

What I explained is essential in all major traditions like Yoga, Vedanta, and Buddhism for thousands of years. Buddha taught Shamatha for the same reason.

Quote

"Doing" practices like kriya yoga seem to say to put your attention on these sense/thought objects --- but how can that take you to the source if you develop the practice of turning the mind outward?

Actually, when you do Astanga Yoga, you are rejecting all the thoughts by holding on to one thought. This is how the mind is initially trained. This is completely different from the monkey mind which goes from one thought to another.

It is the direct approach that takes one to self-realization. But the question is, are people able to do it right away? If they can do it right away and get instantly awakened, that would be great. But for many people, this is not a reality. They do a lot of practices to develop discrimination and non-attachment.  Only after getting some maturity, they are really able to do self-inquiry. 

[Lynnel]

@Azrael  What do you mean by that ? What would be a complete system ?

On 11/03/2018 at 10:52 AM, Azrael said:

Another problem with the normal Kriya in general is, that it is not a complete system. It's only partially revealed. So you cannot finish the whole practice. There is at least one version I know that is complete, but mostly secret. I think Kriya is a good starting point for people though, but maybe don't spend the rest of your life doing it and get a complete system after some time.

@Shanmugam Yeah I understand even if to me just being sound like doing anyway. I mean it feels like you must do a lot just to BE For instance, would the concentration after kriya be a doing or being thing ? See ? You're being there but there is still doing even if it's not "you" doing it.

I actually liked James Swartz teaching's. I got a glimpse by just meditating and saying I'm real non dual limitless awareness over and over and over after reading his two books.

[carlowillo]

@Shanmugam Have you read Kriya Secrets for Beginners? Do you believe the techniques are not effective for beginners? Or only advanced practitioners? 

[Azrael]

On 18.3.2018 at 9:25 PM, Lynnel said:

@Azrael  What do you mean by that ? What would be a complete system ?

It means that you won't get all the techniques and methods that actual belong to the Kriya, because they either don't exist any more or are kept secret. So you can only get so far with the techniques. A complete yoga system leads you to the light body (apparently).

[Raf_vd]

I have some questions as well regarding the yoga practice:

1. I have a naturally very short frenulum and during the talabya kriya I can't feel any stretch in the frenulum. Should you be able to feel the stretch when doing it correctly?

2. Om japa: Do you focus on all chakra's (1;2;3;4;5;6) during one Om and 6;5;4;3;2;1 during the second Om. Or you chant Om on each separate chakra? Or just a separate Om for the Muladhara before proceeding to the next chakra's in one Om? 

Thanks! 

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Raf_vd said:

I have some questions as well regarding the yoga practice:

1. I have a naturally very short frenulum and during the talabya kriya I can't feel any stretch in the frenulum. Should you be able to feel the stretch when doing it correctly?

I feel a stretch. Not sure how you can't feel it stretch. If it's short, you should feel the stretch even more.

Try manipulating your tongue in whatever way necessary to feel a stretch. Emphasize the stretch rather than the tongue's position in your mouth.

Quote

2. Om japa: Do you focus on all chakra's (1;2;3;4;5;6) during one Om and 6;5;4;3;2;1 during the second Om. Or you chant Om on each separate chakra? Or just a separate Om for the Muladhara before proceeding to the next chakra's in one Om? 

Thanks! 

One Om per chakra. Oms in Kriya are very quick.