Vulnerability with your girlfriend

[billiesimon]

Hi guys, I'm still somehow recovering from my breakup but I'm almost ready to start over again and socialize with new people!

I have this question, bugging my mind for several days.

Can you be vulnerable with women? can you express your fears and doubts about life?

Girl go CONSTANTLY to their bfs to find emotional stability and empathy, and generally guys tend to give them this empathy and their interest never goes down because of this.

But are we sure it's the same with girls? I tend to see that girls don't really want their bfs to be emotional and open about their vulnerability. They say it all the time "i want an emotional guy" but... girls really dislike a guy who's emotional. that's also where the stereotype of the asshole comes from.

An asshole is able to be emotionally cold to his woman and she loves him for that, because he NEVER shows weakness to her, never seeks her out for comfort or for empathy. 
She never has the BURDEN of helping him out with his emotions and doubts about life.
I believe this is the harsh truth about women that PC culture constantly hides from us.

Men are usually very happy about helping their women. But is the opposite true?
Share your thoughts.

 

EDIT: I'm NOT saying that girls like assholes because of the indifference towards her. I'm just saying that she likes the ABSENCE of caring for him.

Edited March 9, 2018 by billiesimon

[Shin]

They do want an emotional guy, in the sense that an emotionally closed guy can't connect deeply with her.

The thing is, you need to be able to be totally vulnerable and be able to share everything, no lies or armor, but at the same time she needs a man that is secure and grounded, know what the fuck he's doing and can suck it up even in dire times (they need the latter more).

The thing that is interesting here, is that if you don't have both, you have none.

You can't be truly emotional if you don't have the balls to do great shit in life, cause you refuse to open up to life.

And you can't truly be grounded unless you loose your armor and be honest with yourself and your girl about your issues.

 

Read «The way of the superior man» from David Deida

Edited March 9, 2018 by Shin

[billiesimon]

45 minutes ago, Shin said:

They do want an emotional guy, in the sense that an emotionally closed guy can't connect deeply with her.

The thing is, you need to be able to be totally vulnerable and be able to share everything, no lies or armor, but at the same time she needs a man that is secure and grounded, know what the fuck he's doing and can suck it up even in dire times (they need the latter more).

The thing that is interesting here, is that if you don't have both, you have none.

You can't be truly emotional if you don't have the balls to do great shit in life, cause you refuse to open up to life.

And you can't truly be grounded unless you loose your armor and be honest with yourself and your girl about your issues.

 

Read «The way of the superior man» from David Deida

Thanks for the book recommendation, I was thinking about ordering it!

Mh, yes, I get it that she needs to see you as an emotional man and a grounded man.

But what I don't get is: if you show emotions and ask for sharing opinions and experiences she sees you as a p*ssy and dumps you for the drug dealer who doesn't give a fuck about even talking with her. 
That's what I don't understand.

Why are women attracted to shallow and non-existant emotional connections?
Are they disgusted by an openhearted honest man? (provided that he's grounded in his purpose)

[Spiral]

You shouldn't be rely on only one person ever, that creates dependency. Which creates a unhealthy relationship, I would rely on friends and family whenever possible.  Although honesty is key so while you should rely only on your partner to need to be completely honest with her all the time.

 

Sidenote maybe this is just me but, do you ever regret not saying something? I don't mean talk to a attractive girl of the street. I mean with friends and family.  Because I don't, but I do remember countless times I regret saying something I would have benefited keeping to myself.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Spiral

[Shin]

6 hours ago, billiesimon said:

Thanks for the book recommendation, I was thinking about ordering it!

Mh, yes, I get it that she needs to see you as an emotional man and a grounded man.

But what I don't get is: if you show emotions and ask for sharing opinions and experiences she sees you as a p*ssy and dumps you for the drug dealer who doesn't give a fuck about even talking with her. 
That's what I don't understand.

Why are women attracted to shallow and non-existant emotional connections?
Are they disgusted by an openhearted honest man? (provided that he's grounded in his purpose)

They want you to be responsible for your emotions and happiness.

If she feels that you need her to be happy, it may make her happy for a short time, but what she really wants is a guy that is totally independant and in «control» of his emotions.

Of course she wants to help when you're feeling low, but she needs to feel that wether she's here or not you're gonna be ok no matter what.

As a man you're the center of the relationship, everything depends on you.

It depends on you if the intimacy is deep or not, if your life purpose/goals/habits are exciting to be around (she will take you as an example), if you're both secure emotionally and physically wise, etc ...

How could she feel that you could deliver all that if she feels that you NEED her in your life to be happy ?

That's the key distinction.

It's not that she doesn't want you to share your emotions and your experiences (it actually deepens the intimacy quite a while, can even turn her on), it's WHY you do it that matters.

It's always about INTENTIONS, about how you feel rather than what you say.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Shin

[aurum]

@billiesimon

This is a really nuanced and important question.

If you're in a relationship with a girl, you don't want to hide things from her out of fear she'll "find out". That breaks trust and communication. Plus she's probably going to know you're hiding something anyway.

For instance, if she asks you how you day was and you say "fine" when in reality you're tripping out because you got fired from work and don't know how you're going to pay the bills, that's bad.

Much better would be to be honest about what happened. Let her express her thoughts and offer help if she wants.

She also doesn't want to be with a robot, she wants to feel. So one of the single best things you can do as a guy is learn how to express a large range of emotions and give that to her.

At the same time, you have to recognize what your girlfriend ultimately is not.

She is not here to take care of you.

She is not here to fulfill your needs.

She is not here to feel sorry for you.

Failure to recognize this will result in her either resenting you or leaving you. And if you think it's her job to do any of those things, that's because you've been conditioned to believe that co-dependency and victim-thinking is normal.

So the solution is that you need to handle you. Meet your own needs through your spiritual practice, life purpose and whatever else makes you love life.

Once you do that, you'll be able to communicate authentically without her feeling like you're leaning on her as this weak man.

[billiesimon]

7 hours ago, aurum said:

@billiesimon

This is a really nuanced and important question.

If you're in a relationship with a girl, you don't want to hide things from her out of fear she'll "find out". That breaks trust and communication. Plus she's probably going to know you're hiding something anyway.

For instance, if she asks you how you day was and you say "fine" when in reality you're tripping out because you got fired from work and don't know how you're going to pay the bills, that's bad.

Much better would be to be honest about what happened. Let her express her thoughts and offer help if she wants.

She also doesn't want to be with a robot, she wants to feel. So one of the single best things you can do as a guy is learn how to express a large range of emotions and give that to her.

At the same time, you have to recognize what your girlfriend ultimately is not.

She is not here to take care of you.

She is not here to fulfill your needs.

She is not here to feel sorry for you.

Failure to recognize this will result in her either resenting you or leaving you. And if you think it's her job to do any of those things, that's because you've been conditioned to believe that co-dependency and victim-thinking is normal.

So the solution is that you need to handle you. Meet your own needs through your spiritual practice, life purpose and whatever else makes you love life.

Once you do that, you'll be able to communicate authentically without her feeling like you're leaning on her as this weak man.

Nice response, man.

Yeah, I'm working on myself since my breakup, and I'm still trying out a lot of things. But I will find my inner peace, sooner or later.

But what about the "asshole" dynamic? Why do you say that women like authentic emotional communication if they "fall in love" with assholes that don't even share a single feeling with her? Doesn't that prove that women are emotionally shallow?

[Shin]

4 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

Nice response, man.

Yeah, I'm working on myself since my breakup, and I'm still trying out a lot of things. But I will find my inner peace, sooner or later.

But what about the "asshole" dynamic? Why do you say that women like authentic emotional communication if they "fall in love" with assholes that don't even share a single feeling with her? Doesn't that prove that women are emotionally shallow?

It's because they appear highly confident in the first stage of the relationship, because they don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

When it's time to open up it's a ghost town, which is why they leave women as soon as they smell it's getting serious.

[aurum]

59 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

But what about the "asshole" dynamic? Why do you say that women like authentic emotional communication if they "fall in love" with assholes that don't even share a single feeling with her? Doesn't that prove that women are emotionally shallow?

When I talk about authentic emotional communication, that's for a long-term relationship where you and her are going to build a life together. That's very different from a one night stand or temporary fuck buddy.

I understand exactly what you're talking about. It seems like the guys who often put in the least amount of effort get all the girls, while the guys who care the most get nothing. So women must be emotionally shallow, right?

No.

I'm going to tell you some of the realist shit ever. As I continue to evolve paradigms and improve my own skills with women, it becomes more and more obvious to me just how badly guys suck at Game.

This sounds like something a whiteknight would say but its not. The vast majority of guys are creepy and needy as fuck, "nice guys" included.

Imagine you meet a guy who has $10,000,000. Wow that's a lot of money, you want some of that! But how can you get it?

Well, you realize if you just ask for it, you assume he will say "no". Plus that's too scary.

So you come up with a plan: how about I pretend to be this guy's friend for a couple of years and act like I'm not just here for the money! You'll be his shoulder to cry on and then he's bound to give you the money.

Time goes on and he's not giving you the money. What's worse, you notice the whole time that he's doing all these "business deals" with other millionaires and making them lots of money! What a dick.

One day you get tired of waiting and tell him "I want a million dollars". Our millionaire friend is confused by this seemingly change of heart and saddened, wondering if someone will ever genuinely want to be friends with him without going after his money. When he says "no" for obvious reasons, you get angry, call him a business slut and make a post online ranting about why millionaires only give money to people who they do business with.

I'm not saying this is you, but replace "millionaire" with "girl" the majority of what I see "nice guys" doing.

What you call emotionally shallow I call normal.

And this is just one example of the creepiness of guys. How about guys who are too scared to actually talk to a girl, so they just cat-call or grope them? Or guys who won't stop texting? Or the guy who ignores his friends just to talk to her? It goes on and on.

Yeah maybe the "asshole" isn't the perfect guy, but at least he's not pathetically needy and is comfortable with expressing his sexuality. She's actually attracted to him for that reason.

And this is not a judgement against guys. I was just as bad and know this is all the result of the conditioning we've all received. But it's still creepy.

[billiesimon]

4 hours ago, Shin said:

It's because they appear highly confident in the first stage of the relationship, because they don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

When it's time to open up it's a ghost town, which is why they leave women as soon as they smell it's getting serious.

Uh, I guess it's really hard to keep a real relationship with these guys

2 hours ago, aurum said:

When I talk about authentic emotional communication, that's for a long-term relationship where you and her are going to build a life together. That's very different from a one night stand or temporary fuck buddy.

I understand exactly what you're talking about. It seems like the guys who often put in the least amount of effort get all the girls, while the guys who care the most get nothing. So women must be emotionally shallow, right?

No.

I'm going to tell you some of the realist shit ever. As I continue to evolve paradigms and improve my own skills with women, it becomes more and more obvious to me just how badly guys suck at Game.

This sounds like something a whiteknight would say but its not. The vast majority of guys are creepy and needy as fuck, "nice guys" included.

Imagine you meet a guy who has $10,000,000. Wow that's a lot of money, you want some of that! But how can you get it?

Well, you realize if you just ask for it, you assume he will say "no". Plus that's too scary.

So you come up with a plan: how about I pretend to be this guy's friend for a couple of years and act like I'm not just here for the money! You'll be his shoulder to cry on and then he's bound to give you the money.

Time goes on and he's not giving you the money. What's worse, you notice the whole time that he's doing all these "business deals" with other millionaires and making them lots of money! What a dick.

One day you get tired of waiting and tell him "I want a million dollars". Our millionaire friend is confused by this seemingly change of heart and saddened, wondering if someone will ever genuinely want to be friends with him without going after his money. When he says "no" for obvious reasons, you get angry, call him a business slut and make a post online ranting about why millionaires only give money to people who they do business with.

I'm not saying this is you, but replace "millionaire" with "girl" the majority of what I see "nice guys" doing.

What you call emotionally shallow I call normal.

And this is just one example of the creepiness of guys. How about guys who are too scared to actually talk to a girl, so they just cat-call or grope them? Or guys who won't stop texting? Or the guy who ignores his friends just to talk to her? It goes on and on.

Yeah maybe the "asshole" isn't the perfect guy, but at least he's not pathetically needy and is comfortable with expressing his sexuality. She's actually attracted to him for that reason.

And this is not a judgement against guys. I was just as bad and know this is all the result of the conditioning we've all received. But it's still creepy.

 

I've heard this explanation about authentic sexual interest in the pua community, since I'm starting to approach and study this area of life. I understand what you're saying, it's a matter of being sincere with your core and being direct with the girl.

But what about the fact that girls WANT you to be an emotional tampon for them? They continuously ask their bf to help them everywhere and to solve every single BS problem they have with their friends etc. Isn't this unfair? Since they don't want to be the emotional tampon for you.

 

 

And to be honest... I still don't undestand if I can be sincere with her about my fears and emotions in life.

Is it ok to ask for cuddling and emotional talk to feel that your partner is beside you? I'm NOT talking about asking her to fix you! I'm just talking about asking her to be beside you in your struggles, not to fix them for you.

Is it ok or is it a turn off? Do they dislike giving a hug to their man to give him warmth?

In my very FEW experiences with girls, it seems to me that they are very self centered and solipsistic, and they only think about themselves. They want to be reassured everytime, but when you need it you are a piece of s*** for this.

Sorry for my frustration, but I just want to improve.

[Ether]

Shin: Oh! Remember! Never, ever, ever be yourself!

Pretend to be someone else!

Thats what they want!

Be as unauthentic as possible!

 

Yes!

[aurum]

13 hours ago, billiesimon said:

But what about the fact that girls WANT you to be an emotional tampon for them? They continuously ask their bf to help them everywhere and to solve every single BS problem they have with their friends etc. Isn't this unfair? Since they don't want to be the emotional tampon for you.

That's just not true. There are some relationships like that, but it definitely does not have to be that way.

 

15 hours ago, billiesimon said:

And to be honest... I still don't undestand if I can be sincere with her about my fears and emotions in life.

Is it ok to ask for cuddling and emotional talk to feel that your partner is beside you? I'm NOT talking about asking her to fix you! I'm just talking about asking her to be beside you in your struggles, not to fix them for you.

If it's a long-term relationship, yes that can be fine. You don't need to become some sort of robot.

[Ayilton]

On 3/10/2018 at 6:14 PM, aurum said:

When I talk about authentic emotional communication, that's for a long-term relationship where you and her are going to build a life together. That's very different from a one night stand or temporary fuck buddy.

I understand exactly what you're talking about. It seems like the guys who often put in the least amount of effort get all the girls, while the guys who care the most get nothing. So women must be emotionally shallow, right?

No.

I'm going to tell you some of the realist shit ever. As I continue to evolve paradigms and improve my own skills with women, it becomes more and more obvious to me just how badly guys suck at Game.

This sounds like something a whiteknight would say but its not. The vast majority of guys are creepy and needy as fuck, "nice guys" included.

Imagine you meet a guy who has $10,000,000. Wow that's a lot of money, you want some of that! But how can you get it?

Well, you realize if you just ask for it, you assume he will say "no". Plus that's too scary.

So you come up with a plan: how about I pretend to be this guy's friend for a couple of years and act like I'm not just here for the money! You'll be his shoulder to cry on and then he's bound to give you the money.

Time goes on and he's not giving you the money. What's worse, you notice the whole time that he's doing all these "business deals" with other millionaires and making them lots of money! What a dick.

One day you get tired of waiting and tell him "I want a million dollars". Our millionaire friend is confused by this seemingly change of heart and saddened, wondering if someone will ever genuinely want to be friends with him without going after his money. When he says "no" for obvious reasons, you get angry, call him a business slut and make a post online ranting about why millionaires only give money to people who they do business with.

I'm not saying this is you, but replace "millionaire" with "girl" the majority of what I see "nice guys" doing.

What you call emotionally shallow I call normal.

And this is just one example of the creepiness of guys. How about guys who are too scared to actually talk to a girl, so they just cat-call or grope them? Or guys who won't stop texting? Or the guy who ignores his friends just to talk to her? It goes on and on.

Yeah maybe the "asshole" isn't the perfect guy, but at least he's not pathetically needy and is comfortable with expressing his sexuality. She's actually attracted to him for that reason.

And this is not a judgement against guys. I was just as bad and know this is all the result of the conditioning we've all received. But it's still creepy.

You are giving good advice man  ! Deep 

[Forestluv]

I've noticed many women list "emotionally available" on their desire list. I'm comfortable discussing emotions and I generally like to. I can often get curious. . .  One or both of us may be experiencing fear the other might leave. How might that affect our actions toward each other? Let's look at a few examples. Currently, my gf and I have an interesting control/power dynamic going on. We both want to control the narrative.. . . 

In general, I've found women in romantic relationships like to express emotions, yet don't like to engage in self reflection. For example, if I told a gf that I experienced a sense of rejection after one of her actions - most gals I've dated would either: 1) get defensive and suggest I shouldn't feel that way, 2) get defensive and suggest it's my fault, 3) self-judge and go into "I'm not good enough" mode and suggest maybe I should date someone else. I bet guys act the same way. Perhaps it's human nature. I've found very few women that are open and comfortable discussing emotions and then learning and growing.

[aurum]

8 hours ago, Ayilton said:

You are giving good advice man  ! Deep 

Thanks!

[ADD]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

 

In general, I've found women in romantic relationships like to express emotions, yet don't like to engage in self reflection. For example, if I told a gf that I experienced a sense of rejection after one of her actions - most gals I've dated would either: 1) get defensive and suggest I shouldn't feel that way, 2) get defensive and suggest it's my fault, 3) self-judge and go into "I'm not good enough" mode and suggest maybe I should date someone else. I bet guys act the same way. Perhaps it's human nature. I've found very few women that are open and comfortable discussing emotions and then learning and growing.

Wow. That sounds familiar. And my previous ex-gf was otherwise very emotionally mature and wise. But often when it came to self-reflection she only did it when she was victimizing herself. Usually i was to blame for everything, and eventually it made me feel guilty for her unhappiness.

[BobbyLowell]

Actually @SerotoninluvI personally wouldnt react that way (im actually female, this is a fake name). I would try to go through and explain why I acted that way, as often in my life my actions tend to be misinterpreted, but if i just did something wrong i would admit to it and change it if i think its importnat/worth changing