Beyond Nonduality with Jac O Keefe

[JustinS]

Abiding in nondual awareness can still lead to identification with the Oneness, Self, Absolute. Jac takes it a step further to see that duality and nonduality are still within conceptualizations and that there is one step further which is That. To see through the identification of the nondual. The meta of Reality, the inception of nonduality, beyond form and formless.  Finish it off. 

"Nonduality is still within the movie. It's nothing special. Take it off the pedestal if you have it on a pedestal."

Edited March 8, 2018 by JustinS

[Natasha]

@JustinS Good talk, thanks for sharing.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, JustinS said:

"Nonduality is still within the movie. It's nothing special. Take it off the pedestal if you have it on a pedestal."

Definitely great advice for people who've already had some attainment and want to reach the highest levels of mastery.

[aEOf]

Fox. 

[JustinS]

"Is there such thing as nonduality prior to the word nonduality? There is no such thing as nonduality." First minute. 

"You don't want liberation, you don't want it, because if you have it you won't be there to appreciate it." Ouch! 

Edited March 9, 2018 by JustinS

[Natasha]

@JustinS Another good one.

[JustinS]

A thought came in very intimately while meditating and it said "Is it bad to identify with thoughts." The mind replied to it "neither, just identifying with it causes suffering." Then it said  "Why are you self inquiring? Stop doing all of this." I really noticed this time that self inquiring is going the complete opposite direction from the little mind. It is supposed to be going against your ENTIRE self agenda. It's doing the complete opposite of your very mechanism to stay alive, so of course there is going to be kicking and screaming. 

"You feel like you're going to die, part of the body has to die. A part of your brain actually has to break. There is a death, so the very mechanism that creates your identity, this network in your brain.. All your fears of death is going to come up. It's not just a thought of you dying, that's just a spiritual concept. It's going to viscerally feel like a death, it has to. Be OKAY with it, if you understand what it is YOU'RE ALREADY HALF WAY THERE!" (7:20)

"If you make a list of things I would never do, START DOING THEM!" (48:00) lol 

[JustinS]

The woman in red is self inquiry and has the sword of Truth, and the woman in yellow is the little mind. 

 

[JustinS]

This is a very vague illustration and only post signs.

Duality (identification with mind/body) 

"I am sitting here writing these words." - total identification (There is no "I am here thinking these thoughts, and my hand starts to move.)  

Non-Duality (identifcation with I AM, abiding in nondual (1) awareness) 

"I am having an argument with Lisa." non-identification with thoughts/emotions (Which one is Lisa?) 

Awareness is not localized to any specific place, just resting in I Am, prior to thoughts/emotions.

Who is the one taking this photo? Imagine that there is no one taking this photo. That's you! 

Non-Existence/Prior to Non-Duality (Total Annihilation of both and seen through the dream of Existence/ No Universe/ Absolute Nothingness) 

... I can't even...

^This throughout the entire Existence, complete annihilation. At this point, realization happens that there was never a world, people, or a Universe. The world is only there as long as there is a perceiver. No Existence/Consciousness, no world. This is prior to Non-duality, prior to Consciousness. 

At this point there are NO preferences between dual or nondual states, as these experiences come and go within the Absolute. You’re out. Zippo, nadda. Game over. 

These are all words and concepts and are a waste of your time. Haha I just wanted to share. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by JustinS

[cetus]

On 3/9/2018 at 0:56 AM, JustinS said:

"You don't want liberation, you don't want it, because if you have it you won't be there to appreciate it." Ouch! 

@JustinS Love it!!!! That is the true absolute. The Para-brahman. Prior to consciousness. So very few are willing to hear this. They will surrender what they consider everything (body and mind) for the sake of the ultimate "enlightenment experience". But will they truly surrender everything by allowing consciousness to be absorbed completely by the absolute as so nothing at all remains, not even the experience? No, they want to stick around and have an experience. Which is going to be infinite. No surprise there. It truly never ends. As Peter Ralston said. "you can go on making distinctions forever" (infinity). That is the very nature of consciousness. Duality. To see this is the final liberation that extinguishes every last vestige of desire for conscious experience on any level.

Within the absolute there are no souvenirs of experience to bring back of any kind. If you experienced it, it's not the absolute but a projection or distinction no different than all else that arises within conscious experience. To quote Nisargadatta: "consciousness appears on the absolute as if on a screen". That would suggest everything that appears within consciousness is illusion. Bar none. The truth is there is no truth within conscious experience on any level. And the absolute cannot be tainted by conscious experience. Nisargadatta: "The absolute has no awareness of itself".

I remember Leo saying a couple of years ago "All experiences are just an experience". I still stick closely by those words. Not because anyone said them but because they ring absolutely true.

  

[JustinS]

@cetus56 Bingo! OUCH! C’mon man can you stop that, you’re ruining my story here of how I got enlightened and I’m back to tell the story. It was soo woww...ooo..ahhh LOL.

12 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

But will they truly surrender everything by allowing consciousness to be absorbed completely by the absolute as so nothing at all remains, not even the experience?

Amen.

“Oh god but what about all my favorite collections of my top 5 spiritual ecstasies, universal consciousness, and noself? You mean you mean there there nothing....?”

16 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

The truth is there is no truth within conscious experience on any level. And the absolute cannot be tainted by conscious experience. Nisargadatta: "The absolute has no awareness of itself".

Right on it. ☠️

[Natasha]

@JustinS The end of the world - the 'end' of the movie on the screen. But there was no beginning nor there was an end - they only existed to the character - the projection, the illusion. The characters disappear as quickly as they appeared. The show no more, and no one turned the switch off. The screen is, untouchable.

[JustinS]

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

That is the very nature of consciousness. Duality. To see this is the final liberation that extinguishes every last vestige of desire for conscious experience on any level.

"No experiencer, no experiences, got it.....So, what is there after no more experiences?" <-- says the mind. LOL, oh how it keeps on looking for what is after, what is after, what is it for me, would it feel good? 

@Natasha Beautiful. The girl in the screen is the dream character (little mind), the projector is Consciousness, and the Screen is the Absolute. The projector (consciousness) and the projection (dream) come and go but the screen remains. From duality, to nonduality, to nonexistence. I am That. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by JustinS

[Natasha]

6 minutes ago, JustinS said:

Beautiful. The girl in the screen is the dream character (little mind), the projector is Consciousness, and the Screen is the Absolute. The projector (consciousness) and the projection (dream) come and go but the screen remains. From duality, to nonduality, to nonexistence. I am That. 

 

Yes, thank you 

[JustinS]

Suzanne Segal's story on how NonExistence hit her completely unexpectedly while boarding a train. 

https://realization.org/p/suzanne-segal/segal.collision.html

[JustinS]

Beautiful interview with her. 

http://www.spiritualteachers.org/suzanne-segal-interview/

JLW: Initially, you thought something was wrong and now you have discovered that what you are experiencing could be called enlightenment or awakening. Is this how you see it now?

SUZANNE: I have tended not to call this enlightenment and to call it only the “naturally occurring human state,” because this is who everyone is. The most obvious thing to this view of the Vastness is that it is who everyone is. And so to call IT something like “enlightenment” or “awakening” Swell, maybe. The Infinite does become something that is forefront in the awareness, so I guess you could call it a “waking up” to That. But it is not like you become something else once you see That. It is who you are. It is always who you have been. So, it is the seeing of what you have always been.

JLW: Could you say then that awakening is a shift from not seeing who we have always been to recognizing That?

SUZANNE: Okay, but that recognition doesn’t change who you really are, ever. You have always been That. And yes, there is a way that the Vastness Itself can perceive Itself so directly, without any fogging or shading or taking anything else to be who you are. I guess you could call it a waking up, but what seems most important to convey is that this is who everyone is all the time, whether the direct awareness of it is there or not.

Edited March 10, 2018 by JustinS

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, cetus56 said:

@JustinS Love it!!!! That is the true absolute. The Para-brahman. Prior to consciousness. So very few are willing to hear this. They will surrender what they consider everything (body and mind) for the sake of the ultimate "enlightenment experience". But will they truly surrender everything by allowing consciousness to be absorbed completely by the absolute as so nothing at all remains, not even the experience? No, they want to stick around and have an experience. Which is going to be infinite. No surprise there. It truly never ends. As Peter Rawston said. "you can go on making distinctions forever" (infinity). That is the very nature of consciousness. Duality. To see this is the final liberation that extinguishes every last vestige of desire for conscious experience on any level.

Within the absolute there are no souvenirs of experience to bring back of any kind. If you experienced it, it's not the absolute but a projection or distinction no different than all else that arises within conscious experience. To quote Nisargadatta: "consciousness appears on the absolute as if on a screen". That would suggest everything that appears within consciousness is illusion. Bar none. The truth is there is no truth within conscious experience on any level. And the absolute cannot be tainted by conscious experience. Nisargadatta: "The absolute has no awareness of itself".

Good stuff!

[JustinS]

LML: And outside of that awareness there is suffering. Identification with the personal always involves suffering, even with what people call happiness.

SUZANNE: Identification and taking something to be other than what it is–seeing it as something that is not the Vastness, or as something that is not good, or not desirable. There is one way to end suffering and that is for everything to be seen for what it is, because then we don’t ask that something be different in order for suffering to stop.

JLW: So, seeing something for what it is implies seeing with the eyes of the Vastness.

SUZANNE: That is correct.

JLW: Thus, the way to end suffering is to. . .

SUZANNE: . . . see with the eyes of the Vastness.

JLW: People are going to read this and out of their deep yearning, they may try to apply it and wonder. . .

SUZANNE: “How am I going to do this?”

JLW: Yes, how does one shift from seeing through the personal eyes to seeing through the eyes of the Vastness?

SUZANNE: Your question is contrary to how the Vastness actually exists, which is that it is always perceiving things for what they are from within Itself. The implication that one should figure out what to do in order to see with the eyes of the Vastness implies that that isn’t already constantly occurring, and you have to do something to connect with that. I have always hesitated to say, “do this or do that.” I say only “see with the eyes of the Vastness,” which is already happening, because this leaves the mind confounded about what to do.

JLW: When the mind is confounded, it is stopped, and there is an openness.

SUZANNE: I am not necessarily aiming for the mind to be stopped. I guess the aim would be for the mind to recognize that it doesn’t know. The mind needs to see that there is nothing for it to do. It is not the doer and it doesn’t have to find the correct position. It’s like, That which has been happening all the time and which has always been the doer, finally shows Itself to Itself for what it is.
 

LML: So, that showing Itself to Itself just happens?

SUZANNE: It just happens and it is always happening. There is this wave of constancy of the Vastness perceiving Itself that is always going on and the mind can say, “How am I going to do that? How am I going to perceive that? How am I going to perceive that wave of perception that is always perceiving itself? How am I going to connect with it? What can I do in order to see with those eyes that are seeing all the time?”

LML: All of those questions are just thoughts in the mind.

SUZANNE: Exactly! So there, you just saw it for what it is–just thoughts. In seeing things for what they are, the Vastness is doing the very thing that the mind tries to figure out how to do.

LML: The mind didn’t see that? Something beyond the mind saw that?

SUZANNE: Yeah! The mind didn’t see that. So, how do you try to explain this in a practice, right? If I gave a practice, it would be colluding with that same construct that passes itself off as the doer.

LML: Are you saying that spiritual practices can perpetuate the construct of a doer?

SUZANNE: Spiritual practices imply that something has to be done in order to become the Vastness or in order to see that the Vastness has always been the doer. That is part of what I think this life of Suzanne has just been arranged to convey–that this is always who everyone is, nothing changes. This is always who the doer has been. It is seeing itself all the time, in every moment.

Edited March 10, 2018 by JustinS

[Timotheus]

Killing me softly <3

[JustinS]

How does that little girl in the projection realize herself as the screen prior? Well, anything that the little girl can do is only played out within the framework of the projection. She can’t get out of herself because she was never really in herself. The only she can do is to start dismantling her perceived notions of who she thought she were, and that means the entire framework within that projection (ex. Me and My World) to not be taking it personally. 

The distance the little girl has to jump in order to be the screen is 0. She is played out within the screen but to her it will feel like a great distance that has to be traveled “the spiritual journey” until it makes a loop back. What has changed then? Nothing but everythint? To who? Huh? If the projection is a seeker and wants to “abide” in the screen and wake up from the dream of consciousness, it has to go through a death period to experience with the body mind the prior. 

People say “nothing ever happened” or “there is nothing going on” or “nothingness” is because the screen has always been the screen whatever chaotic film may have been projected onto it. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by JustinS