The work of Byron Katie: Turning this world into heaven

[How to be wise]

@Faceless @abrakamowse Attaching to thoughts is what creates time. How can you awake from time if you don’t unattach from them!

[Faceless]

Just now, How to be wise said:

@Faceless @abrakamowse Attaching to thoughts is what creates time. How can you awake from time if you don’t unattach from them!

The tricky and creepy thing it when you ask “how to” you invite time as a means to an end. This is a movement of effort on behalf of self ‘volition’ 

 Do you see that? 

The ending of time is so subtle for the complex muddled mind. It’s so simple that it is overlooked. 

[Faceless]

The one who is attatched to thought is thought. Attaching to thought is both the cause and the effect. Attachment to thought is attachment to self. And asking how to detatch from time ‘thought’ is also the movement of time. 

This needs to be comprehended fully and totally. Then their is instant freedom from the desire to be free. And true freedom becomes an actuality. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@How to be wise

do you see that asking how invites time? When you ask how you are attempting to bring intellect ‘thought’ in to the picture. When thought ‘volition/will’ influinces the very degree of order in thinking itself. You can’t use time to get to the timeless. That’s trying to use an incomplete action to capture action that is whole/complete. 

Keep with this. Don’t give up on comprehension of this.?

And remember thought will do everything it can to avoid this action from coming into being. That is it’s function. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[eskwire]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@eskwire I’m sorry if I sounded too harsh.

You can’t heal from a trauma unless you realise that the physical event didn't cause your suffering. Your thoughts about the situation did. If you carry on believing that trauma is possible, you will continue living in fear that maybe tomorrow you will be traumatised. 

You do the work on thoughts that cause you internal suffering. ‘The Work’ is based on healing the mind. A thought like ‘I broke my ankle’ isn’t really what’s causing most of your misery (but it does cause some, so you could The Work on it if you want to). If you break your ankle, and want to do The Work, do it on a thought like ‘I shouldn’t break my ankle’ which most people clearly are attached to. Who would you be without the thought ‘I shouldn’t break my ankle’ when the paramedics are taking you away? More internal peace. 

Internal healing only happens when you realise that what you thought happened didn’t. 

Btw, Byron Katie’s depression was pretty serious. In fact, the last two years before her awakening, she couldn’t leave her house due to fear. She stayed in her bedroom for months on end, her clothes and hair stuck to her body because of how long she stayed in one place. That sounds pretty serious to me. 

Sidenote: in the advanced stages of The Work you can actually stop your physical pain. Physical pain always happens in the past and future. After her awakening, there was a time when Katie stuck her hand down a champion juicer, and it literally crushed her fingertips. Even though her hands and clothes were filled with blood, she couldn’t feel any pain because of her not attaching to thoughts. 

 

 

Yes, her depression was serious, but it's the type of depression caused solely by thoughts. Her external life was priveleved. She was only able not to leave her house for so long because her basic needs were covered. She did just need to work on her attitude - and that's why she thinks everyone else just needs to do that, too. Other people do have trauma. Children get traumatized - by thinking "untrue thoughts" or not - and need to heal.

The point is not that the broken ankle is causing misery. The point is that something other than working with thoughts and not feeling pain is needed to restore functionality to the ankle. 

You don't sound harsh. You just have no compassion, which is pretty par for the course with Byron Katie's method. 

I was able to control the pain of my broken ankle without pain meds for a couple of hours through meditation. I was also able to keep a positive attitude through it. 

My problem with your post is that, in my experience doing The Work, I saw that it has some potential issues. It helped me with forgiveness but not enlightenment - and even then, the forgiveness didn't stick. It's not the perfect method for everyone at every time. It is also silly to put down other methods as though The Work is definitely, for sure better.

I'm glad you feel better this month; I just think you are over proselytizing. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by eskwire

[Faceless]

41 minutes ago, eskwire said:

My problem with your post is that, in my experience doing The Work, I saw that it has some potential issues. It helped me with forgiveness but not enlightenment - and even then, the forgiveness didn't stick. It's not the perfect method for everyone at every time. It is also silly to put down other methods.

I think the importants of a method is to show you that relying on methods ‘thought/self’ as an authority leads to further methods, techniques, and systems of thought itself. There is nothing wrong with methods and such but they are used to show you through personal experience the limitations of such. They may be very well useful as you must find out for yourself. 

Question to ask is does the actual method, technique, system actually free one from the bondage of time, when it itself is a movement bound by time??? Or can time ‘movement of fear/ego’ bring about a realm without fear/ego/time??? And are the patterns of all systems designed to show you as a trial and error type of learning experience??? 

This is a possiblity to look into

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[How to be wise]

@eskwire All suffering is caused by attaching to thoughts. Try to give me any type of suffering which isn’t caused by attaching to thoughts. Once you’ve unattached from all thoughts, you have no more suffering. Simple maths.

What else is enlightenment but unattaching from thoughts. Once you’ve unattached from all thoughts, you have permanent non-dual awareness. 

Meditation is fine, until you come out of it and somebody cuts you off in traffic. You can achieve with The Work what will take decades with meditation. I’m talking about acquiring everything that the episode ‘Big picture of self-actualization’ was talking about. 

Why meditate when there is a fast track for enlightenment? 

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Once you’ve unattached from all thoughts, you have no more suffering. Simple maths.

One thing to consider is who is going to unattach oneself from thought. When the one who does so is still moving in the direction of thought? 

 

6 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

You can achieve with The Work what will take decades with meditation

And if the movement ‘achievement’ is taking place this is still a movement of fear which implies self/thought. So thought at that point has not been detatched from at all. It has played a trick on itself. Something else to consider ?

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[How to be wise]

@Faceless eventually, once you’ve advanced quite far with The Work, that thought will need to be given up as well. But I don’t see any relevance in what you’re talking about for the beginner. 

[Faceless]

23 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Faceless eventually, once you’ve advanced quite far with The Work, that thought will need to be given up as well. But I don’t see any relevance in what you’re talking about for the beginner. 

This is not a gradual process. Time is not needed to discover this. Process being gradual is depending on psychological time. Psychological time is an illusion but it is also a fact that exists actually. But to depend on psychological time is depending on an illusion as means to accomplish. And what happens when we do that???? 

Further illusion and deception perhaps??‍♂️

Thats why it takes some people so long. For me it was instantaneous and uninvited. Not the result of any movement of thought and time which are the same. 

When the movement of fear and its attempt to secure itself ended so did time. 

This could take a minute or it could take 60 years if not ever. Check it out before you come to a conclusion. As coming to a conclusion before investigating is also a movement of fear, thought, self, time. 

??

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

I was a beginner when it ended lol 

i will always be a beginner. But, I am not bound by time. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

So actually @How to be wisetheir is nothing wrong with meditation and other such techniques, and @eskwire their is nothing wrong with people finding there own particular teacher/portal. 

Trial and error will be the deciding factor. Don’t just participate in “the way” you choose to do things, but also observe it and learn about it. You may find limits you never knew exsisted?

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[eskwire]

@How to be wise This will be my last post on the topic, as trying to persuade someone seems like a foolish waste of time. 

An example of a source of suffering that is not an attachment to thoughts is subconscious clinging and subconscious aversion. They affect your life without even showing themselves enough to do The Work.

If someone cuts me off in traffic and I am not mindful enough to even notice I am enraged in that moment, I won't do The Work. In that case, meditating would have helped.

@Faceless You seem like a very nice Rad Dad, so I will try not to be rude about this. It is not necessary to referee or Dad me. I clearly stated multiple times that it's fine this person does The Work and I am happy it is working for that person (finding their own teacher/portal).

I am contesting the arrogance and inaccuracy of pushing it as a downside-free silver bullet for everyone at every time. The potential for a denial effect and lack of compassion in Byron Katie's work is something I will always point out. It's important.

My concession is that I have realized I would benefit from doing The Work again now, since I have done so much meditation and finally have the mindfulness skills to apply it outside of doing worksheets.

[Faceless]

Just now, eskwire said:

@How to be wise This will be my last post on the topic, as trying to persuade someone seems like a foolish waste of time. 

An example of a source of suffering that is not an attachment to thoughts is subconscious clinging and subconscious aversion. They affect your life without even showing themselves enough to do The Work.

If someone cuts me off in traffic and I am not mindful enough to even notice I am enraged in that moment, I won't do The Work. In that case, meditating would have helped.

@Faceless You seem like a very nice Rad Dad, so I will try not to be rude about this. It is not necessary to referee or Dad me. I clearly stated multiple times that it's fine this person does The Work and I am happy it is working for that person (finding their own teacher/portal).

I am contesting the arrogance and inaccuracy of pushing it as a downside-free silver bullet for everyone at every time. The potential for a denial effect and lack of compassion in Byron Katie's work is something I will always point out. It's important.

My concession is that I have realized I would benefit from doing The Work again now, since I have done so much meditation and finally have the mindfulness skills to apply it outside of doing worksheets.

I appreciate your honesty.??

I am not taking any side on this. Just expressing points that may be worth investing. 

Thanks for sharing?

[How to be wise]

@Faceless are you practicing The Work?

[Faceless]

No?

I have only read a few quotes that she did. I did all my work ‘inquiry’ after I was already free from time. I inquired after but on my own. My intention was to figure out what had happened to me. 

Now I am exploring what others have done to find similarities and learn different ways to communicate this important sharing. I have noticed I can investigate just about any sharing and pretty much understand and relate to what is said fairly easy. 

I hope her sharings are helping you and I hope you become free from time as well

?

??

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[abrakamowse]

Thanks all for your comments! Very interesting thread! Good night!

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

Thanks all for your comments! Very interesting thread! Good night!

Thank you for your sharing to 

[How to be wise]

@Faceless are you already 100% free of suffering? 

[How to be wise]

@abrakamowse you’re welcome.