The work of Byron Katie: Turning this world into heaven

[abrakamowse]

I am reading her book and she says something that I was thinking for a long time... everything we say is a LIE.

I totally agree with that.

[Faceless]

It think ultimately some might have to just end the pattern of being guided or taught at all. Or the pattern of a certain routine that may bring about a certain result in time. Some people can go it alone and it is much easier for them to do so. Some may need yoga/meditation, some may not. 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[How to be wise]

7 hours ago, Dodo said:

The name of her method - "The work" is a put off for lazy peeps. 

I have enough work. For me spirituality is not work. I prefer Eckhart Tolle for destroying beliefs. Also he's mentioned that he doesn't like the word "work" - he's my type of teacher <3

Despite the name, it’s actually a lot easier than the standard meditation and yoga path. Because it actually ends somewhere.

7 hours ago, eskwire said:

The Work is ok. Reading it before getting heavily into meditation and spirituality just caused a lot of denial issues for me. Lots of going around in circles by dealing with thoughts (symptoms) instead of root issues (sankharas, the body). She also victim blames like a mofo. Instead of teaching you to accept that something traumatic has happened and healing must occur, you are told to also try and think up ways you did it to yourself. ? 

The sankharas and body issues are caused by attaching to your thoughts!

The ‘turnaround’ happens after the four questions for a reason. You first contemplate whether the thought you’re attaching to is true, and the other questions. When you come to realise that they weren’t true then you turn them around, so that you can gain more insights about the opposite, and embody them in your life. The turnaround is part of ‘the healing’. 

Lol how can you heal from a trauma if you actually believe that it’s possible to be traumatised. 

[How to be wise]

6 hours ago, LetTheNewDayBegin said:

It's the opposite of inquiry. It's not inquiry if you get the questions prepared for you and it's not inquiry if the answers to questions are given before you even start.

Whatever method you choose to practice, please doubt it at least a little bit.

“It’s not inquiry if you get the questions” Lol what is inquiry then?

Inquiring into whether a certain statement is true or not is possible. Why wouldn’t it be?

[moon777light]

i feel like this is just a practice of denial, it might work for people who are mentally sort-of stable, but for people with traumas and deep issues, its just going to mess around their mind/thoughts more. 

[abrakamowse]

3 minutes ago, moon777light said:

i feel like this is just a practice of denial, it might work for people who are mentally sort-of stable, but for people with traumas and deep issues, its just going to mess around their mind/thoughts more. 

Why do you think that?

[Faceless]

In my experience....

For me efficient inquiry comes second. First there needs to be a freedom to investigate without any movement of attachment to self and its tendency to escape and self sooth. Psychological time must be seen and ended. Then inquiry is not a practice, or method.

if you are not free to inquire without fear, pleasure, and a compulsion to bring about or maintain psychological security there will be no inquiry at all. 

This is how I feel I brought about such a quick and radical change in myself. To see that being time bound prevents the necessary freedom to inquire. If you are time bound deception/illusion is inevitable. If you seek security in any direction this alters/distorts inquiry from running true.

If you investigate this for yourself you will see it is a fact. 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Thought will always seek a method/practice. Try and see the subtlty of thought. As the practicer is the practiced, and the one who seeks any particular method is an aspect of the same process and method. The ego, the process, the method are really one. 

There is no difference between any method, practice, meditation and the one who participates in them. The meditator is the meditated. All these methods, practices, systems, and the self all are born out of the same substance, THOUGHT. Volition implies thought, thought implies will, and if you are bound by volition you are bound by time. 

Free yourself from time if you want a healthy line of inquiry. Otherwise fear, hope, and the egos defenses will prevent inquiry from running straight. Then inquiry, meditation, and so on will be benifical, efficient, and way more fun.  

I hope someone out there sees the significance of this..?

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[How to be wise]

@Faceless are you claiming that people with serious emotional problems can’t contemplate? That’s nonsense. 

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Faceless are you claiming that people with serious emotional problems can’t contemplate? That’s nonsense. 

I’m just saying if you are to attatched to an end result it is difficult if not impossible to inquir without bias. 

There may be different forms of inquiry, meditation, and so on that are great in themselves for different types of people, but if you are  not free from psychological time you will tend to get stuck.  

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Suffering leads to passion and passion leads to the realization that psychological time must end. Then you can investigate reality, truth, and so on. The Agenda limits inquiry/investigation. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@How to be wise as I said before there is nothing wrong with Byron Katie’s way. As the way is always secondary. 

[abrakamowse]

14 minutes ago, Faceless said:

There may be different forms of inquiry, meditation, and so on that are great in themselves for different types of people, but if you are  not free from psychological time you will tend to get stuck.

How do you end psychological time? inquiry into it? observation? My (the) mind is always there trying to arrive to a conclusion.

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

How do you end psychological time? inquiry into it? observation? My (the) mind is always there trying to arrive to a conclusion.

For me is was a sudden realization. I just saw that movement in its entirety. And by seeing the fact of it ended it. To see the limits of time ‘psychological becoming’ one doesn’t even touch it anymore. 

You have never noticed that movement in yourself ‘to become or not become something or anohter’???? 

Just found this quote. I’ve been looking at a few of his quotes and he seems to really have seen this same realization.

“The window is the absence of the wall, and it gives air and light because it is empty. Be empty of all mental content, of all imagination and effort, and the very absence of obstacles will cause reality to rush in.”

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Edited April 21, 2018 by Faceless

[abrakamowse]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

You have never noticed that movement in yourself ‘to become or not become something or another’???? 

I see that in the intention. Right now I am trying to do everything without any intention, just by doing it because I enjoy it.

But that's also an intention too... I think this is what Buddhist call the non doing, an action that is not a result of interaction with a cause and it does not look for an effect. I am paraphrasing, not sure it that's correct.

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

I see that in the intention. Right now I am trying to do everything without any intention, just by doing it because I enjoy it.

But that's also an intention too... I think this is what Buddhist call the non doing, an action that is not a result of interaction with a cause and it does not look for an effect. I am paraphrasing, not sure it that's correct.

I don’t know but it is action that is whole. Not fragmented. I have noticed in the last couple of days that Taoism/Buddhism do get into this.? Action according to thought/volition is always incomplete. It is influenced by the conditioned mind. Whole action is a perception not influenced by the stream of thinking ‘conditioned mind.’ 

Good association

[abrakamowse]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

I don’t know but it is action that is whole. Not fragmented. I have noticed in the last couple of days that Taoism/Buddhism do get into this.? Action according to thought/volition is always incomplete. It is influenced by the conditioned mind. Whole action is a perception not influenced by the stream of thinking ‘conditioned mind.’ 

Good association

Cool, thanks @Faceless :-)

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Cool, thanks @Faceless :-)

Sure?

[eskwire]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Despite the name, it’s actually a lot easier than the standard meditation and yoga path. Because it actually ends somewhere.

The sankharas and body issues are caused by attaching to your thoughts!

The ‘turnaround’ happens after the four questions for a reason. You first contemplate whether the thought you’re attaching to is true, and the other questions. When you come to realise that they weren’t true then you turn them around, so that you can gain more insights about the opposite, and embody them in your life. The turnaround is part of ‘the healing’. 

Lol how can you heal from a trauma if you actually believe that it’s possible to be traumatised. 

Is it true that sankharas are caused by attaching to thoughts?

Let's turn it around.

Maybe these thoughts are caused by sankharas. Perhaps they arise simultaneously. How do you know?

Yes, "lol trauma" - that's exactly the lack of compassion I find in her work.

Is it true you have to not believe in trauma or you will never heal from it? Why? Why is it impossible for trauma to be healed?

My broken ankle is healing. I am practicing walking again. It was traumatized - hurt and damaged to the point of not functioning. With acknowledgment that it needed attention and healing techniques, it is getting better and returning to function. 

If I just did The Work, it could look like this:

Thought: I broke my ankle.

Is that true? Yes, my ankle is broken.

Is that reeeeeally true? Uhm, well, idk? Maybe it's just different not broken? But can I walk with it like this? Nothing is true?

How do you react when you think that thought? I feel like I need to go to the hospital.

Turn it around: My ankle broke me.

How not helpful. I would still need to go to the hospital for treatment if I wanted to walk again without major malfunctions. This can also apply to the psyche.

My point is that this is not helpful for everything and other healing techniques are needed for some people.

Perhaps your body issues were due to depression about silly minor things. Byron Katie was emotionally distraught despite her easy, privileged, white lady life doing real estate whatever. Other people HAVE experienced serious trauma and The Work can be helpful in forgiving some of that. Other techniques are helpful, too. Don't laugh off other people's experiences because you read some books by a Sagittarius Horse who believes in everyone picking themselves up by their bootstraps and dismissing some harsh realities of life. That is her living her personality. 

[How to be wise]

@eskwire I’m sorry if I sounded too harsh.

You can’t heal from a trauma unless you realise that the physical event didn't cause your suffering. Your thoughts about the situation did. If you carry on believing that trauma is possible, you will continue living in fear that maybe tomorrow you will be traumatised. 

You do the work on thoughts that cause you internal suffering. ‘The Work’ is based on healing the mind. A thought like ‘I broke my ankle’ isn’t really what’s causing most of your misery (but it does cause some, so you could The Work on it if you want to). If you break your ankle, and want to do The Work, do it on a thought like ‘I shouldn’t break my ankle’ which most people clearly are attached to. Who would you be without the thought ‘I shouldn’t break my ankle’ when the paramedics are taking you away? More internal peace. 

Internal healing only happens when you realise that what you thought happened didn’t. 

Btw, Byron Katie’s depression was pretty serious. In fact, the last two years before her awakening, she couldn’t leave her house due to fear. She stayed in her bedroom for months on end, her clothes and hair stuck to her body because of how long she stayed in one place. That sounds pretty serious to me. 

Sidenote: in the advanced stages of The Work you can actually stop your physical pain. Physical pain always happens in the past and future. After her awakening, there was a time when Katie stuck her hand down a champion juicer, and it literally crushed her fingertips. Even though her hands and clothes were filled with blood, she couldn’t feel any pain because of her not attaching to thoughts.