Graves Levels And Enlightenment

[Kyle]

What is the relationship between the Graves stages of development and enlightenment? Is the realization of non-duality somewhere on this scale? Does this scale even have to do with enlightenment/can anyone from any level be enlightened? Some stages like turquoise and yellow are said to have only existed in the past century or so, but enlightened people have been around for thousands of years. I'm curious to see what people have to say about this. 

[Toby]

Ken Wilber describes it very good, eg in T.O.E., Integral Psychology or Integral Spirituality. Imo Enlightenment is not necessary like some progressive thing as it might seem with Graves/Wilber. You can even google for Ken Wilber's maps and you get a taste that the real transpersonal levels start in 3rd tier, after yellow/turquoise. As a map this stuff is really amazing.

Edit: You can see it here in the first picture that Wilber uses 4 additional stages to Spiral Dynamics.

https://integrallife.com/integral-post/overview-integral-theory

Edited March 3, 2016 by Toby

[Markus]

You should watch this: 

Enlightenment is an aspect of "Waking up" while the stages are an aspect of "Growing up". Interesting video. Also talks about "Showing up" and "Cleaning up" (shadow work).

[Toby]

A more detailed but straightforward description of the higher levels:

https://integrallife.com/integral-post/stages-meditation

[werlight]

@Kyle Realization of nonduality is a result of enlightenment.  What happens during enlightenment is that you become your true nature. Pure beingness..

In essence you become One with being and you realize the Oneness of everything that IS.

This realization takes time.. it doesn't happen instantaneously. It is a natural consequence of enlightenment.

Your goal is not to understand non duality. Your goal is to experience your essence. Non duality understanding comes after.

Edited March 4, 2016 by werlight

[cetus]

 And pure being and duality and enlightenment are all coupled to the ground state of nothingness? Is that the Oneness? The singularity?

[Toby]

I guess I didn't understand correctly what Wilber was saying. A video that made the difference/relationship between stages and states more clear to me:

Ken Wilber youtube-video

[Britta]

My simplest understanding is that they are not at all the same thing, they actually seem to be on entirely different fields:

Enlightenment =  Being one with the "true" self, understanding our nothingness, oneness, and wholeness that is a part of being. 

Spiral/Graves = Our understanding and empathy, toward aspects of our lives/society/community.  

 

 

 

[werlight]

12 minutes ago, Britta said:

My simplest understanding is that they are not at all the same thing, they actually seem to be on entirely different fields:

Enlightenment =  Being one with the "true" self, understanding our nothingness, oneness, and wholeness that is a part of being. 

Spiral/Graves = Our understanding and empathy, toward aspects of our lives/society/community.  

 

 

 

everyone of these things is the inevitable conclusion of the same truth.

[Britta]

Well we if you understand that enlightenment isn't a thing  that people either have or don't have you, and all people have the capacity to be enlightened right now, then yes on any stage or the model a person can be enlightened.  That being said you can do very great things and display most of the qualities of a person in green/yellow ect stages, and not be close to realizing your true being. 

They may be inevitable conclusions of the same fundamental truth.  Though you can be enlightend and be at a lower level on the graves model.  One can have full grasp on their being and oneness, but also still be conservative with how they interact within their life.  The graves model is your more your thoughts and perception of how you view the world you live in, and enlightenment is a full acceptance/awareness of what is, and what it is you are.  

You must keep in mind that the graves model is only a model, I think people of the past might have been what we consider yellow, maybe some of the great philosophers, but there is not point in speculating we will never know, and that is never going to drive your work forward.