New Age vs. Neo-Advaita vs. Authentic Spirituality

[WildeChilde]

There seems to be an overlapping theme of non-duality and the shared goal of attaining higher levels of consciousness, yet each are received differently by the community.  "New Age" is the most incredulous label, "Neo-Advaita" is sometimes used in a stigmatizing manner by the old guard, and "true/authentic spirituality" is almost universally praised.  What is it that separates these three?  Thanks guys.

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, WildeChilde said:

There seems to be an overlapping theme of non-duality and the shared goal of attaining higher levels of consciousness, yet each are received differently by the community.  "New Age" is the most incredulous label, "Neo-Advaita" is sometimes used in a stigmatizing manner by the old guard, and "true/authentic spirituality" is almost universally praised.  What is it that separates these three?  Thanks guys.

Preference according to personality 

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

shared goal of attaining higher levels of consciousness,

All movements in the realm of psychological time

[Shanmugam]

 The title of this thread has the answer to your question: New Age vs. Neo-Advaita vs. Authentic Spirituality... So the premise here is that only one of the three is authentic and you said that yourself.

Labels like 'new age', 'neo Advaita' really do not mean much because there are no well-defined points on how this categorization is made...But as much as I have seen, many teachers who belong to this new age/neo Advaita group are deluded. 

When we talk about universally accepted spiritual paths, we are dealing with a mixture of things. Even the statement that God created the world in 7 days is universally accepted across Christians, but that doesn't make it true. But at the same time, there are certainly well-established methods which are universally accepted among authentic teachers. 

I see a general theme in all such well-established paths such as Advaita Vedanta, Yoga and Buddhism. There are three things which are important in these paths:

1) Discrimination between the pure awareness and the contents of the awareness.

(This may sound like dualistic teaching, but it is pretty much essential. Developing this discrimination is the key to a spiritual path. All spiritual practices which involve doing something are intended to develop this discrimination.

2) Doing

This involves anything that you do, like Kriya Yoga techniques, Shamatha meditation in Buddhism, Ashtanga Yoga or anything which involves doing something. This is mainly intended to purify the mind, prepare the ground and develop discrimination and non-attachment.

3) Non - Doing

This is the very important step. The problem with neo-Advaita is that they talk about this and only this! They completely ignore the practices intended to prepare the ground. You will hear them saying things like 'You cannot do anything to become enlightened', 'You are already enlightened' etc. But these things are not said in traditional paths until a seeker is progressed to a certain level.

Non-doing simply put is simply abiding as the pure awareness or witness. There are various approaches to this and this is also explained in various ways and various names like neti-neti, self-inquiry, mindfulness, witnessing etc. The underlying concept is the same. You abide as the witness, allow the thoughts and sensations to arise and pass away; since you might already have a strong discrimination at this point, there will be simple recognition of 'neti neti' without you having to do anything.  This non-doing leads to a complete merger of the observer and the observed; the witness and the witnessed. In fact, there is no reason to even teach that the observer and the observed is the same, because it is automatically recognized by direct experience of truth. 

Read this for more info: https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2018/03/01/spiritual-enlightenment-the-groundwork-needed-for-seekers/

 

 

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

In fact, there is no reason to even teach that the observer and the observed is the same, because it is automatically recognized by direct experience of truth. 

 

Yes 

The truth, is the seeing in ones self that the thinker is the thought.?

[Faceless]

I asked my girlfriends dad if he didn’t have thoughts would he even exsist. He didn’t like this question and evaded 

I’m in the dog house now lol 

[Monkey-man]

All the Indian scriptures such as Bhagavad-Gita, Buddha's teachings, ancient and modern non-duality which is based on Indian traditions and any kind of non-duality really, they all make enlightenment as their end goal. But enlightenment is only one tiny step on the spiritual path. All of that is outdated for the current potential of human soul's capabilities. Enlightenment was the biggest thing possible in that ancient times but not in the last 2,000 years and especially not today. In order to see what is the whole purpose of spirituality, you should make some research on scriptures (or interpretations of them) of Abrahamic religions, especially New Testament and Quran, as they are the last and final scriptures we have and will ever have. They reveal the end purpose of spirituality or what you might call as authentic spirituality.

New-Age is just renaissance of forgotten spirituality after centuries of industrialization, it can be helpful for beginners but it doesn't usually go to the core of spirituality.

[Shanmugam]

35 minutes ago, Monkey-man said:

All the Indian scriptures such as Bhagavad-Gita, Buddha's teachings, ancient and modern non-duality which is based on Indian traditions and any kind of non-duality really, they all make enlightenment as their end goal. But enlightenment is only one tiny step on the spiritual path. All of that is outdated for the current potential of human soul's capabilities. Enlightenment was the biggest thing possible in that ancient times but not in the last 2,000 years and especially not today. In order to see what is the whole purpose of spirituality, you should make some research on scriptures (or interpretations of them) of Abrahamic religions, especially New Testament and Quran, as they are the last and final scriptures we have and will ever have. They reveal the end purpose of spirituality or what you might call as authentic spirituality.

New-Age is just renaissance of forgotten spirituality after centuries of industrialization, it can be helpful for beginners but it doesn't usually go to the core of spirituality.

Monkeyman, you don't really understand what non-duality is.. Not only you, most of the people in this forum don't understand what it is... They are just speaking out of their current conclusions...

First of all, there is really no inherent purpose to life. Life is not a journey from point A to point B, but the dualistic mind just sees the life that way. But still, you will find in the Indian traditions that enlightenment is the ultimate purpose of life; This is just said to the beginners, to make them walk in the spiritual path...

Many people in this forum think that there is 'more' to reach after enlightenment.... There is certainly a lifelong deepening in enlightenment, which happens automatically anyway. But you can't understand what this 'deepening' really is unless you are actually enlightened.. 

What is popularly known as enlightenment is the complete destruction of duality. Once that happens, life is no longer seen as a journey from point A to point B but seen as always here and now.. After that, you stop craving for 'more'... You stop asking 'what is next'... It is like realizing that your body and mind is in perfect synchrony with the orchestra of existence and that you are existence itself. 

[Monkey-man]

@Shanmugam it means that you misunderstood Jesus. Plz read Jesus’ teachings carefully. Jesus didn’t teach enlightenment, his teachings are way beyond that.

And nonduality isn’t the highest and most profound form of spirituality as many ppl here think. It’s only useful in beginning but eventually it will hold you back. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Monkey-man

[Shanmugam]

Just now, Monkey-man said:

@Shanmugam it means that you misunderstood Jesus. Plz read Jesus’ teachings carefully. Jesus didn’t teach enlightenment, his teachings are way beyond that.

The following verses from Bible directly talk about how a liberated (enlightened) person lives his life:

Matthew 6:25-34

“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[a]?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

...........................................

Jesus is directly preaching life is here and now. He also speaks about how one can enter the kingdom of God only after becoming like children

Matthew 18:

He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

What Jesus says here is true.. The experience of non-duality is pretty similar to how little child experiences reality: the same sense of innocence, devoid of conflict and worry, living here and now

You will find the same theme in many Indian scriptures. Here is one from Ashtavakra Gita:

18.49 The sage does whatever appears to be done without thinking of good or bad. His actions are those of a child.

Enlightenment is not about the rat race, it is not about attaining something.. There is no competition in the spiritual path. 

.....................................

Don't try to defend yourself! Think about the possibility that you could be wrong here! Because I am speaking from the experience; enlightenment is not really what you think it is; It is the end of the personal story; It is a death for you as an entity...

[Shanmugam]

@Monkey-man By the way, I don't go with the Bible completely.. Bible is a collection of misinterpreted versions of Jesus's teachings.. But I can recognize the authentic teachings in it very clearly.. Also, there are gnostic gospels such as ones written by Thomas, Judas and Mary Magdalene...

You seem to be saying these things based on something you heard from someone.. Who is that 'infallible' authority who says Jesus didn't teach enlightenment?

[Shanmugam]

@Monkey-man Here is a verse from 'Gospel of Thomas' which is very clear:

Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom". They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]

Notice the lines "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner"?

This is non-duality...  .. 

 

[Ether]

@Shanmugam ok, Shan, your belief is funny and all...but women have vaginas and males have dicks!

[Shanmugam]

4 minutes ago, Ether said:

@Shanmugam ok, Shan, your belief is funny and all...but women have vaginas and males have dicks!

Do you know the meaning of the word 'metaphor'?

[Ether]

@Shanmugam Nope, i take things literally.

[Deep]

14 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

This is non-duality...  .. 

Another meaning of non-duality is: there is no separation between God and creation. Everything we see is God. 

[WildeChilde]

@Shanmugam You'll have you forgive us Shanmugam; us Americans can be a little slow sometimes .  Thank you for your original post and your article.  It cleared up a lot of the misunderstandings I had.  I always felt Neo-Advaita was missing something that the ancient traditions had, namely stressing the importance of the doing as a primer for no-doing.  I'll still read the work of teachers like Adyashanti, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle, but it's time now to take up a practice.  Thanks again.  

[Shanmugam]

Abiding in the midst of ignorance, thinking themselves wise and learned, fools go aimlessly hither and thither, like blind led by the blind.

— Katha Upanishad (Vedantic text)

Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole."

- Verse 34, Gospel of Thomas 

Suppose there were a row of blind men, each holding on to the one in front of him: the first one doesn't see, the middle one doesn't see, the last one doesn't see. In the same way, the statement of the Brahmans turns out to be a row of blind men, as it were: the first one doesn't see, the middle one doesn't see, the last one doesn't see.

— Canki Sutta (MN 95) (Buddhist Text)

[Shanmugam]

1 minute ago, Deep said:

Another meaning of non-duality is: there is no separation between God and creation. Everything we see is God. 

Yes..

1 minute ago, WildeChilde said:

@Shanmugam You'll have you forgive us Shanmugam; us Americans can be a little slow sometimes .  Thank you for your original post and your article.  It cleared up a lot of the misunderstandings I had.  I always felt Neo-Advaita was missing something that the ancient traditions had, namely stressing the importance of the doing as a primer for no-doing.  I'll still read the work of teachers like Adyashanti, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle, but it's time now to take up a practice.  Thanks again.  

You are welcome.. It is not your fault though.. These days many people who have celebrity status or popularity talk about non-duality without realizing what it is in experience..   And people have a tendency to add more weight to the statements of popular people (like popular teachers) ...One common misunderstanding is in understanding the difference between a spiritual experience and spiritual enlightenment. A person can go through thousands of spiritual experiences and still live in duality. Enlightenment is a complete and permanent merger of experiencer vs experiencing.. Many people misunderstand a profound spiritual experience as enlightenment.  

[Shanmugam]

2 hours ago, Faceless said:

I asked my girlfriends dad if he didn’t have thoughts would he even exist. He didn’t like this question and evaded 

 

that's expected.. .. Majority of the population is not interested in spirituality; not because they are not intelligent but they are too much identified with their personal selves.. There is absolutely no distance at all. Whether a person becomes a seeker or not depends on nature and the nurture, their genetics, and the life experiences..