You Can't Pursue Happiness Trough Spirituality.

[ZenDog]

Im confused now...

First I realized that pursuing happiness in the ordinary consumer society way dosen't seem to work that well.

Then I found out about spirituality. Now I do 1-2 hours of meditation a day. I see pursuing happiness trough spiritual work as a legit way to get happiness. 

But..

My spiritual work is still a pursuit. And every enlightened teacher says u cant pursue happiness, be happy now. Don't wait untill ur enlightened to be happy.

 

Well.. I can say to myself: " ok. Delaying happiness untill I become more enlightened is not gonna work. So ok im gonna be happy now.".

Well.. im not happy now.

If I cant pursue it.. then what the fuck can I do!?

Excuse me for my swearing

[zenny]

@ZenDog there's this guy known as UG, i will share his words with you now:

1.U.G.: There is no happiness. I never ask myself the question. So many people ask me that question: "Are you happy?" What is that question? Funny question. I never ask [myself] that question, "Am I happy?" 'Total happiness is an invention. [Mr. Kothari: "Invention of the mind, you mean? Naturally."] There is no mind. There is no such things as the mind at all. Where is the mind? Is the mind separate from the body? Distinguished from the body? Apart from the body? These questions have no meaning at all. You have no way of separating yourself from what is going on. The moment you separate yourself means you have a knowledge about it -- the knowledge given by either the biologists, the physiologists, the psychologists or the religious people. So through that you are looking at it. You cannot experience anything without knowledge. You cannot experience this at all, let alone Brahman or reality. You cannot experience this at all. Only through abstraction. And what is that abstraction? The knowledge you have about it. This has been put there. Your mother told you, or your neighbor or friend told you that this is a table. What the hell is that, you don't know, apart from what you have been told. Every time you look at this, you have to repeat to yourself that it is a table. What are you doing that for? This is my question. This is the continuity I am talking about. You want to reassure yourself that you are there. The "I" is nothing but this word. There is no "I" independent of this word. Maybe you find some parallel [to what I am saying] in Shamkara or God knows what.

2.Whatever you do in the pursuit of truth or reality takes you away from your own very natural state in which you always are. It's not something you can acquire, attain or accomplish as a result of your effort. All that you do makes it impossible for what already is there to express itself. That is why I call this your natural state. You're always in that state. What prevents what is there from expressing itself in its own way is the search. The search is always in the wrong direction. So all that you consider very profound, all that you consider sacred, is a contamination in that consciousness. You may not like the word contamination but all that you consider sacred, holy and profound is a contamination. There's nothing that you can do, it's not in your hands. This is something which I can't give because you have it. It is ridiculous to ask for a thing which you already have. There isn't anything to get from anybody. You have what I have. I say you are there.

3.U.G.: You have to be saved from the very idea that you have to be saved. You must be saved from the saviors, redeemed from the redeemers. If it is to happen, it must happen now. My words cannot penetrate the lunacy there. It is the madness of the spiritual search that makes you unmoved and impervious to my words. The line between the madman and the mystic is a very, very thin one. The madman is regarded as a clinical case, while the other, the mystic, is equally pathological. Forget the rosaries, the scriptures, the ashes on your forehead. When you see for yourself the absurdity of your search, the whole culture is reduced to ashes inside you. Then you are out of that. Tradition is finished for you. No more games. Vedanta means the end of knowledge. So why write more holy books, open more schools, preserve more teachings? The burning up inside you of everything you want is the meaning of ashes. When you know nothing, you say a lot. When you know something, there is nothing to say.

4.You always want to be somebody else; you want to imitate the life of somebody else -- you want to imitate the life of Jesus, you want to imitate the life of Buddha, you want to imitate the life of Shamkara. You can't do it, because you don't know what is there behind. You will end up changing your robes, from rose to saffron, saffron to yellow, or from yellow to rose, depending upon your particular fancy. How can you ask for a thing which you do not know? How can you search for a thing which you do not know?
That is my question. So, search has no meaning at all. Only when the search comes to an end, what there is will express itself, in its own way. You cannot tamper with that. You cannot manipulate that. You cannot manipulate the action of the thing which is there, which has an extraordinary intelligence.

[A way to Actualize]

For example we can take one who is depressed. To say to him: 'be happy now!' does not work. To be happy is to be at a state of peace, that can be intensified with deeper stages of awakening/presence. Self-love is definitely something that grants you process towards that without return. Self-love is not something you have to depend on. Eventually it becomes something automatic, and you will somehow not be attracted to lower conscious things, only if you need to release judgement.

[Spider Jerusalem]

@ZenDog You've just definitively proved that "thinking about being happy" can't possibly work. You can't really become happy "deliberately". I can only describe the best way of approaching this as "don't seek" AND "don't not seek." which is what is generally meant by "do nothing". "Do nothing" doesn't mean nothing is happening, as the functioning of everything always goes on in its merry way and doesn't give a hoot about happiness or any other mental categories.

Just be awake to whatever is happening (I know..sounds clichéd, but the cliché is valid)

Another cliché: "Let all the questions fall away". 

None of this means that you can't analyze how phenomena work in general (I mean it's good to cure diseases based on  some kind of theory, right?). 

But when it comes to the so-called spiritual process, "seeking" doesn't work at all in the long run, although it may be helpful to start with. Above all, don't use Mind to seek Mind, as this is completely pointless and works more like a spiritual game than anything really helpful.

However, that said, it's not that simple to "do nothing", as it initially appears to be counterproductive to the so-called quest. 

Seeking happens...and then the seeking ends.

Since there are so many paradoxes in this space, let me add one more to add to the mess: "Enlightenment is both easier and harder than you might think."

Edited March 2, 2016 by Spider Jerusalem

[jjer94]

Your happiness right now is circumstantial. You refuse to be happy unless you're enlightened, unless you have a girlfriend, unless you have your dream career, etc. The happiness that the gurus are talking about is the subtle happiness of being, the I AM. It's right there in your experience, silent but full, right beyond the mind's stories, pervading every sense perception. The most difficult part about being happy is that it's too simple!

"Being happy is a matter of being happy." - Peter Ralston

"Well I’m telling you...you do have a terminal illness. It’s called Birth. You don’t have more then a few years left, no one does, so be happy now with out reason or you never will be at all.” - Socrates, Way of the Peaceful Warrior

"A fool is 'happy' when his cravings are satisfied. A warrior is happy without reason. That's what makes happiness the ultimate discipline--above all else I have taught you." - Socrates, Way of the Peaceful Warrior

[Guest]

I think what's being said isn't to immediately induce a feeling of happiness. Spirituality merely lets you realize your suffering is an illusion, and this seemingly illusive thing you call happiness has always been with you. Spirituality is largely the process of realizing that, on a more than intellectual level. To say it is not a pursuit can be misleading, but what you are supposed to infer from that is while you are "pursuing" a goal, it is not actually chasing anything. What you are chasing is already there--- you just have to wake up.

[abrakamowse]

 

3 hours ago, zenny said:

@ZenDog there's this guy known as UG, i will share his words with you now:

1.U.G.: There is no happiness. I never ask myself the question. So many people ask me that question: "Are you happy?" What is that question? Funny question. I never ask [myself] that question, "Am I happy?" 'Total happiness is an invention. [Mr. Kothari: "Invention of the mind, you mean? Naturally."] There is no mind. There is no such things as the mind at all. Where is the mind? Is the mind separate from the body? Distinguished from the body? Apart from the body? These questions have no meaning at all. You have no way of separating yourself from what is going on. The moment you separate yourself means you have a knowledge about it -- the knowledge given by either the biologists, the physiologists, the psychologists or the religious people. So through that you are looking at it. You cannot experience anything without knowledge. You cannot experience this at all, let alone Brahman or reality. You cannot experience this at all. Only through abstraction. And what is that abstraction? The knowledge you have about it. This has been put there. Your mother told you, or your neighbor or friend told you that this is a table. What the hell is that, you don't know, apart from what you have been told. Every time you look at this, you have to repeat to yourself that it is a table. What are you doing that for? This is my question. This is the continuity I am talking about. You want to reassure yourself that you are there. The "I" is nothing but this word. There is no "I" independent of this word. Maybe you find some parallel [to what I am saying] in Shamkara or God knows what.

2.Whatever you do in the pursuit of truth or reality takes you away from your own very natural state in which you always are. It's not something you can acquire, attain or accomplish as a result of your effort. All that you do makes it impossible for what already is there to express itself. That is why I call this your natural state. You're always in that state. What prevents what is there from expressing itself in its own way is the search. The search is always in the wrong direction. So all that you consider very profound, all that you consider sacred, is a contamination in that consciousness. You may not like the word contamination but all that you consider sacred, holy and profound is a contamination. There's nothing that you can do, it's not in your hands. This is something which I can't give because you have it. It is ridiculous to ask for a thing which you already have. There isn't anything to get from anybody. You have what I have. I say you are there.

3.U.G.: You have to be saved from the very idea that you have to be saved. You must be saved from the saviors, redeemed from the redeemers. If it is to happen, it must happen now. My words cannot penetrate the lunacy there. It is the madness of the spiritual search that makes you unmoved and impervious to my words. The line between the madman and the mystic is a very, very thin one. The madman is regarded as a clinical case, while the other, the mystic, is equally pathological. Forget the rosaries, the scriptures, the ashes on your forehead. When you see for yourself the absurdity of your search, the whole culture is reduced to ashes inside you. Then you are out of that. Tradition is finished for you. No more games. Vedanta means the end of knowledge. So why write more holy books, open more schools, preserve more teachings? The burning up inside you of everything you want is the meaning of ashes. When you know nothing, you say a lot. When you know something, there is nothing to say.

4.You always want to be somebody else; you want to imitate the life of somebody else -- you want to imitate the life of Jesus, you want to imitate the life of Buddha, you want to imitate the life of Shamkara. You can't do it, because you don't know what is there behind. You will end up changing your robes, from rose to saffron, saffron to yellow, or from yellow to rose, depending upon your particular fancy. How can you ask for a thing which you do not know? How can you search for a thing which you do not know?
That is my question. So, search has no meaning at all. Only when the search comes to an end, what there is will express itself, in its own way. You cannot tamper with that. You cannot manipulate that. You cannot manipulate the action of the thing which is there, which has an extraordinary intelligence.

This is awesome! Thanks.

[ZenDog]

@jjer94 Yes I know my happiness is based on circumstance. So right now  im chasing happiness independent from circumstanse. I know its already happening and I just need to be aware of it.

But how can I possibly become aware of it right now? Without any pursuit?

[ZenDog]

7 hours ago, Spider Jerusalem said:

@ZenDog You've just definitively proved that "thinking about being happy" can't possibly work. You can't really become happy "deliberately". I can only describe the best way of approaching this as "don't seek" AND "don't not seek." which is what is generally meant by "do nothing". "Do nothing" doesn't mean nothing is happening, as the functioning of everything always goes on in its merry way and doesn't give a hoot about happiness or any other mental categories.

Just be awake to whatever is happening (I know..sounds clichéd, but the cliché is valid)

Another cliché: "Let all the questions fall away". 

None of this means that you can't analyze how phenomena work in general (I mean it's good to cure diseases based on  some kind of theory, right?). 

But when it comes to the so-called spiritual process, "seeking" doesn't work at all in the long run, although it may be helpful to start with. Above all, don't use Mind to seek Mind, as this is completely pointless and works more like a spiritual game than anything really helpful.

However, that said, it's not that simple to "do nothing", as it initially appears to be counterproductive to the so-called quest. 

Seeking happens...and then the seeking ends.

Since there are so many paradoxes in this space, let me add one more to add to the mess: "Enlightenment is both easier and harder than you might think."

What do u mean by do nothing? The technique?

[ZenDog]

7 hours ago, Saitama said:

I think what's being said isn't to immediately induce a feeling of happiness. Spirituality merely lets you realize your suffering is an illusion, and this seemingly illusive thing you call happiness has always been with you. Spirituality is largely the process of realizing that, on a more than intellectual level. To say it is not a pursuit can be misleading, but what you are supposed to infer from that is while you are "pursuing" a goal, it is not actually chasing anything. What you are chasing is already there--- you just have to wake up.

So I guess u kinda go full circle? U start chasing only to realize it was there all along? But u still had to do the chasing to see it.

Think Leo said that in a video called spiritual seeking.

[Cuzzo]

To be quite honest, the whole process of seeking was really getting me nowhere. I would be unhappy about something, and say to myself "Ok I am not the mind or the thoughts. All of these problems are actually meaningless...so why do I feel sad/angry/unhappy?" I couldn't seem to make that transition from getting caught up in my thoughts and emotions. All of the breaking down and analyzing was mental masturbation (as Leo puts it). 

It wasn't until I watched a video linked on here. I can't remember his name, but he said to simply love yourself despite however you're feeling. Accept yourself as you are and love yourself. And for some reason, that clicked with me. I was no longer trying to separate myself from anything. I was accepting reality for what it was, and loved myself unconditionally. 

For so long, I would tell myself "I shouldn't be so attached to money, I shouldn't be so caught up over this girl, I shouldn't waste my time doing stupid things". But now that I learned to love myself unconditionally, I can work to improve these things in myself without investing my happiness into them.

Don't get me wrong, I am very very very far from whatever truth their is, but that video really helped me make a bit of a paradigm shift, even if it was just a small one. My handle on situations in general has vastly improved. There are times where it can be hard to love myself. To love and accept the one thats sad, thats angry, thats unsatisfied. But letting that love in and knowing that it SHOULD be unconditional is an amazing feeling. 

 

[30secs]

@ZenDog

practical things to do:

 

1. be happy for yourself alone

2. then, be happy with other people and external things

3. If you can't be happy with others or external things, back to no. 1

[Henri]

@ZenDog Surrender my friend...

[Dhana Choko]

My short way to put this is that one is happy when it is serving the expression of all that is happening currently in the present moment. There is no greater happiness than being in service. Just let life do its thing with you. If life wants to be unhappy through you, let it be and fully commit to this service in the moment it is happening. Peace guaranteed.

[Markus]

Spiritual work gradually teaches you how to be happy now. The point is that you should not look for happiness as some kind of future event. As the ever-present peace in the background starts to illuminate, you will have a growing experiential understanding of this. 

Let's put it this way: meditation trains your mind to stop looking for happiness in the future and be happy now. You cannot meditate with the goal of becoming happy because by definition you're supposed to allow experience to be as it is. Meditation as an activity is not one where you seek happiness. You may intellectually believe it is going to make you happier over time and that is quite true, but as you are meditating, in the moment, you're not having the mindset of looking to attain something that isn't there now, and if there is, you just observe it like any other phenomena.

[ZenDog]

@Cuzzo Yeah I watched that video too. I also had the problem of being "try hard spiritual". Everytime I had negative toughts I would feel guilt cus im a so called spititual person.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15 hours ago, ZenDog said:

What do u mean by do nothing? The technique?

@ZenDog Sure, if by technique, you mean no-technique technique