Being trapped

[StephenK]

I've been doing some lengthy Vipassana meditation in the last week, and there are some moderate perceptual changes that have occurred. I've become aware of my identification with the body and the mind, as well as how crazy that identification really is, and how much suffering it brings. I've realized that all my fear, anger, resentment, attachment, craving and resistance to life makes no sense. Yet, despite seeing this, my ego feels as strong as ever. In the face of all this, a part of my mind just says "So what? You think showing me these truths will change anything? I'm here to stay!". There's a feeling of the ego still ruling the roost, despite seeing into it's true nature. There's a feeling of being trapped, kind of like looking at an image of a spider: you're aware that it's just an image, yet your body tenses up when you see it. How does one get over this? Just give into the steamroller that the ego is? Accept it?

[dorg]

You simply see that you are not the ego. Ego can be really strong but you are not it, you are not fooled by it. You are the witness, the consciousness that is aware of the ego and it's pranks. It is trying to get you involved in thought, in it's thought system; it is trying to keep you enthralled as the ego, as someone located somewhere, as who-you-think-you-are, trying to drag you back into 'the dream'.

[StephenK]

@dorg Yes. There is a sense that the ego tries to co-opt every perspective one might take. You think you're stepping out of it (the ego), only to realize you're right back in it. I relate to the statement 'It is trying to get you involved in thought' -- there is a definite awareness that the mind is being pulled towards thinking, constantly -- kind of like a full-body craving for thought. It sings its sweet song, clouding your awareness, and you then slide into its web of illusions.  

[dorg]

23 minutes ago, StephenK said:

There is a sense that the ego tries to co-opt every perspective one might take. You think you're stepping out of it (the ego), only to realize you're right back in it.

@StephenK The ego is every perspective that you take. Every time that you think, that is the ego thinking.

Edited March 2, 2018 by dorg

[dorg]

1 hour ago, StephenK said:

There's a feeling of the ego still ruling the roost, despite seeing into it's true nature. There's a feeling of being trapped, kind of like looking at an image of a spider: you're aware that it's just an image, yet your body tenses up when you see it. How does one get over this? Just give into the steamroller that the ego is? Accept it?

In my experience, you get to be not so fearful, you progressively do not give in to your tensing up and in this progression you begin to see the world as not such a fearful place; you see that it 'projects back to you' what you think about it; you begin to trust more.

I am now beginning to think/see (envision/understand) that really nothing can go wrong for me, as even if something 'conventionally goes wrong' that that is just a convention, a widely held view (thought/belief), and I will learn something from it, ie where I am still attached (to thought about myself).

And is there actually anyone attached to thought/belief? Only if you think/believe so :).

 

[StephenK]

12 hours ago, dorg said:

@StephenK The ego is every perspective that you take. Every time that you think, that is the ego thinking.

Interesting. Never thought of it that way.

11 hours ago, dorg said:

In my experience, you get to be not so fearful, you progressively do not give in to your tensing up and in this progression you begin to see the world as not such a fearful place; you see that it 'projects back to you' what you think about it; you begin to trust more.

I am now beginning to think/see (envision/understand) that really nothing can go wrong for me, as even if something 'conventionally goes wrong' that that is just a convention, a widely held view (thought/belief), and I will learn something from it, ie where I am still attached (to thought about myself).

And is there actually anyone attached to thought/belief? Only if you think/believe so :).

 

That makes sense.

[tsuki]

Ego is the phenomenon that localizes "you". You may be your body, you may be your mind, you may be your future or your past.

The really sly thing is to identify yourself as awareness that supposedly does not identify with anything!
Saying that you identify yourself as awareness is like saying that you attach yourself to non-attachment. 

By saying that, Ego antagonized itself and wants to get rid of an Ego! How is that supposed to work?
How do you expect to let go if you hold on to letting go? Ego cannot run away from itself even if it sees itself as a problem.

[StephenK]

48 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Ego is the phenomenon that localizes "you". You may be your body, you may be your mind, you may be your future or your past.

The really sly thing is to identify yourself as awareness that supposedly does not identify with anything!
Saying that you identify yourself as awareness is like saying that you attach yourself to non-attachment. 

By saying that, Ego antagonized itself and wants to get rid of an Ego! How is that supposed to work?
How do you expect to let go if you hold on to letting go? Ego cannot run away from itself even if it sees itself as a problem.

So let the ego play out, as it must, but maintain awareness of what is truly happening?

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, StephenK said:

So let the ego play out, as it must, but maintain awareness of what is truly happening?

That's way easier to write than do, isn't it?
All that is really happening is totally inexpressible. Once I write it down, it no longer is!
This state of total presence is sometimes so agonizing that it really feels like you are trapped in the eternity of now 

When it comes to letting the ego play out - it is sometimes scary to think that the ego may play you. Don't get too caught up in that. Let it play you if it must and trust that you will wake up one day again. Being asleep is not THAT bad.

[StephenK]

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

Being asleep is not THAT bad.

All this sleeping is making me so tired though...better take a nap

[Haumea]

The fact that it's trying to re-assert itself means you're making progress.

Ignore it and keep practicing.

You have to let it know that you're going to ignore its bullshit.  When it knows you mean business, it'll fold like a cheap suit.