Spiritual Crisis Please Help!

[Vladimir]

Hey guys,

So I'm at a point where I've been experiencing a lot of distrust and anxiety to this whole process. What keeps coming up during my near ego death experiences is that "If I'm God and I created everything then I will feel all the pain and suffering of the whole Universe" - and that without this there can't be any of this that we're experiencing now, that this is what true awakening is, is to feel absolutely everything. I'm now developing paranoia and suspicion to this entire process, especially after learning about that woman who took a hit of 5meo-DMT and ended up having a trip where she was "dying everyone's death". Also if death is the same as ego death, then basically there is no escaping this path, so now I'm stuck thinking that eventually I will end up experiencing all the suffering of all creation in the end, no matter what path I choose.

Leo, or anybody else could you please provide some guidance and wisdom here?

[Ether]

Just theories

 

Keep accepting everything

[dorg]

Whatever the ego experiences, that is not you; you are not the ego. It does not look like you have separated from the ego (who you think you are) and 'taken the witness position'. By getting involved in thought you are dragged into 'the dream'. Just watch those thoughts pass by.

Edited March 2, 2018 by dorg

[Ether]

@Joseph Maynor Nobody actually know.

[Leo Gura]

@Vladimir You are misunderstanding enlightenment.

All fear is illusion. You will realize this after you die.

You are still clinging to "not suffering". But there can only be suffering so long as you're a you.

It's like you're shooting yourself in the foot.

A great relief comes when you realize you never existed as a human.

Maybe use a psychedelic to get this fear out of your system. Psychedelics are great at pushing you into ego-death. The only way to conquer this fear of death is to face it head-on and actually die (without harming your body).

There can be on enlightenment without conquering the fear of death. That is literally what enlightenment is. So start facing up to it as soon as possible.

And while you're at it, surrender yourself to the fact that you -- as God -- may indeed experienced every bit of suffering in the entire universe. Along with all the joy. And be okay with that. That is maturity. Let that humble you. You cannot be enlightened while fearing suffering/pain and only wanting joy -- that would be unenlightenment/ the survival paradigm.

[Nahm]

@Vladimir I’ve experienced what I am. I’m freed. I’ve never experienced anything you said in your post. Just offering a personal testimony, in hopes It is useful. 

It’s hard for anyone to distinguish between God, ego, personality, etc. On top of that, all distinctions are relative to all experiences. Every word anyone (me too) says, is a one off, and a lie. Thinking doesn’t resolve thinking.

  So the only way is straight into yourself. Disregard everything everyone says. Do the practices every morning. Consider a trip. 

The truth is in you, and no where else. When you discovery what you are, you’ll be done with those distinctions. Godspeed man. It’s the most worthwhile endeavor. ❤️

[egoless]

@Vladimir You will never know whether you are experiencing all the suffering or not. Because after physical death nobody knows what exactly happens. anything could happen. This is just story you believed. In fact you don't know how fragmented and layered the reality is. 

[alyra]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 Atman is unchanging Awareness.  So, when you rest as unchanging Awareness, you are being Atman — that which never changes.  Notice that Atman is never permanently affected by anything in the fluxing, changing experiences of reality.  Atman is immune to the mechanations of Maya. 

 You’ll stop identifying with the Dream.  That’s what the Ego is — it’s a false identification of Atman with Maya.  The Ego thinks Maya is you!  No.  Maya is a fluxing dream that unchanging Awareness are aware of.  

 

oh - thank you this means a lot to me  

 

(totally not hitchhiking with the thread)

Edited March 2, 2018 by alyra

[Vladimir]

Thank you all, this really helps.

[smd]

42 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

Thank you all, this really helps.

Can you share the link or story for the woman who had the trip?  I like reading them.

[Vladimir]

12 hours ago, smd said:

Can you share the link or story for the woman who had the trip?  I like reading them.

http://reset.me/personal-story/personal-story-my-5-meo-dmt-experience/

Enjoy!

[alyra]

17 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I'm glad you appreciate my work -- my attempts to share the teachings.  Of course, that goes through my filter, which is not gonna resonate with everyone.  I understand that.  I think every teacher of this material wants to be the one who finds the right theory that effortlessly communicates Enlightenment to everyone.  That tack has probably been tried by every person who has pontificated on these matters!  But who has succeeded?  That's a hard blow.  That's reality.  So, that likely means that people are different.  Not everyone is gonna resonate with the same teachers.  That's something that's kinda hard to deal with when you want to teach this stuff -- because, naturally, you don't want it to be a limiting-belief.  But it's inevitable -- it's like -- ah! -- I told you so!

is there a book that you've read that talks about maya, and atman, that you'd recommend? 

[Samuel Garcia]

@Leo Gura

On 02/03/2018 at 9:57 PM, Leo Gura said:

And while you're at it, surrender yourself to the fact that you -- as God -- may indeed experienced every bit of suffering in the entire universe. Along with all the joy. And be okay with that. That is maturity. Let that humble you. You cannot be enlightened while fearing suffering/pain and only wanting joy -- that would be unenlightenment/ the survival paradigm.

I took 5 - Meo -DMT and it started off well as I instantly became nothing and saw a lot of love. But then it went really bad as I started to see all this suffering in the world. It went over my head pretty much but I do remember towards the end I was experiencing rape and it was hell. I screamed '' I don't want to know the truth! I don't want to know the truth!''. It seems like I was just imagining things. But if I want to get enlightened, will I have to face this hell again?  If I am to face the hell I saw again, I would have to love it in order to successful. I don't know if I am willing to love evil.

[Leo Gura]

@Samuel Garcia That's you resisting reality.

You cannot become fully enlightened without surrendering yourself to reality.

The notion of "evil" must die. And for that to happen, you (the ego) must die.

You haven't gone deeply enough into the truth of No-Self yet.

You are unable to love evil because ego is unable to love evil. The only option is surrender that ego, which is what you're still resisting.

More trips are necessary to clear this up. Or whatever other spiritual techniques you want to use like self-inquiry/meditation/yoga.

But regardless of the method, you (the ego) must die.

[Samuel Garcia]

@Leo Gura Thanks Leo for the reply. And since you are looking into spiritual techniques, I actually had a 'God' experience/ psychedelic-like experience by feeling into suffering + feeling emotions fully. I cried and screamed but I had to be completely alone and be willing to scream really loudly (without anyone hearing me). A lot happened there but I tried to replicate it again a week later but I'm suffering less so I couldn't. I guess it was a high stress experience which can create similar experiences to psychedelics.

This ''technique'' seemed to advance me a lot quicker then others but very tough. You also seem to need to have a  lot of pain in life which is difficult to create.

[Vladimir]

On 3/2/2018 at 1:57 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Vladimir You are misunderstanding enlightenment.

All fear is illusion. You will realize this after you die.

You are still clinging to "not suffering". But there can only be suffering so long as you're a you.

It's like you're shooting yourself in the foot.

A great relief comes when you realize you never existed as a human.

Maybe use a psychedelic to get this fear out of your system. Psychedelics are great at pushing you into ego-death. The only way to conquer this fear of death is to face it head-on and actually die (without harming your body).

There can be on enlightenment without conquering the fear of death. That is literally what enlightenment is. So start facing up to it as soon as possible.

And while you're at it, surrender yourself to the fact that you -- as God -- may indeed experienced every bit of suffering in the entire universe. Along with all the joy. And be okay with that. That is maturity. Let that humble you. You cannot be enlightened while fearing suffering/pain and only wanting joy -- that would be unenlightenment/ the survival paradigm.

@Leo Gura How did you overcome fear of physical pain? 

[Vladimir]

1 hour ago, Samuel Garcia said:

@Leo Gura Thanks Leo for the reply. And since you are looking into spiritual techniques, I actually had a 'God' experience/ psychedelic-like experience by feeling into suffering + feeling emotions fully. I cried and screamed but I had to be completely alone and be willing to scream really loudly (without anyone hearing me). A lot happened there but I tried to replicate it again a week later but I'm suffering less so I couldn't. I guess it was a high stress experience which can create similar experiences to psychedelics.

This ''technique'' seemed to advance me a lot quicker then others but very tough. You also seem to need to have a  lot of pain in life which is difficult to create.

@Samuel Garcia @Leo Gura Were you able to do this without psychedelics? I've had multiple near-ego death experiences on Mushrooms, Ayahuasca and 5meo-DMT and the same themes keeps popping up which makes me resist - as my body starts to dissolve, there is a sense that in order for me to be reunited with God, I first must experience the most painful physical pain (because my ego/mind has constructed a story that without that, there can be no reality, and I have to be the one who does this). At the same time this occurs, I'm starting to have a very powerful emotional release, but I haven't been able to completely let go. I'm realizing this is ego creating this story because it doesn't want to let go, any suggestions on how I can deprogram this story from my mind?

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

@Leo Gura How did you overcome fear of physical pain? 

I didn't overcome it. I just don't focus on it.

BTW, physical pain is a conceptual construct of the mind and can be deconstructed with sufficient mindfulness.

Fear is only something that comes up if you are actively thinking about the future.

If you are 100% present, there actually cannot be fear. There can be pain, but no fear. Fear is always a conceptualization of the future.

24 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

@Samuel Garcia @Leo Gura Were you able to do this without psychedelics? I've had multiple near-ego death experiences on Mushrooms, Ayahuasca and 5meo-DMT and the same themes keeps popping up which makes me resist - as my body starts to dissolve, there is a sense that in order for me to be reunited with God, I first must experience the most painful physical pain (because my ego/mind has constructed a story that without that, there can be no reality, and I have to be the one who does this). At the same time this occurs, I'm starting to have a very powerful emotional release, but I haven't been able to completely let go. I'm realizing this is ego creating this story because it doesn't want to let go, any suggestions on how I can deprogram this story from my mind?

You just need to practice surrendering more. Why are you expecting it to happens within a few tries? Just try more.

You can also deprogram stories by contemplating why they exist, what purpose are they serving? Apply consciousness to the issue. Why is this such a big deal for you? Really get to the bottom of it.

-------

You can also attempt to apply unconditional love to this problem. Love the fear and pain to death. Love yourself enough to allow yourself to take the leap of the faith and fully surrender to God's infinite intelligence. Don't try to use your little ego-mind to figure out the universe. It goes WAY beyond that. You must let the universe wash over you. To do that, you must accept whatever the cost may be.

[MisterMan]

22 hours ago, Samuel Garcia said:

@Leo Gura

I took 5 - Meo -DMT and it started off well as I instantly became nothing and saw a lot of love. But then it went really bad as I started to see all this suffering in the world. It went over my head pretty much but I do remember towards the end I was experiencing rape and it was hell. I screamed '' I don't want to know the truth! I don't want to know the truth!''. It seems like I was just imagining things. But if I want to get enlightened, will I have to face this hell again?  If I am to face the hell I saw again, I would have to love it in order to successful. I don't know if I am willing to love evil.

It is quite well regarded that psychedelics can make shit up, but it's also known that it can unlock repressed trauma's that you weren't even aware of.

Leo did a good video about evil. Saying it's important to have a holistic view of the things of which you deem to be evil. Say for example rape, the person commiting this crime against another for the most part probably would have had a life that if you knew what happened to him you would feel some compassion. It's not something i can ride off to the sunset with but i am playing with this holistic perspective of the world. Kind of dependant origination in bhuddism, where the cause and effect are interrelated and interdependant on one another. You can't have the cause without the effect and vice versa. There's a lot to unpack but the whole gist is we don't really wan't to see the holistic perspective, as allan watts said we are dependant and as a result indebted to the evil person as their existence reflects well on us, they make us look good. It makes us look really good!

Edited March 4, 2018 by MisterMan

[dorg]

@Vladimir said:

Quote

there is a sense that in order for me to be reunited with God, I first must experience the most painful physical pain (because my ego/mind has constructed a story that without that, there can be no reality, and I have to be the one who does this).

Yes, but ONLY because you believe you are someone located somewhere. Wherever you believe you are is where you are. You think this and believe it and that belief will need to be ripped off you, and dependent on how believed that belief is is related to how painful that will be. Is it any wonder that you are concerned about this.

Quote

At the same time this occurs, I'm starting to have a very powerful emotional release, but I haven't been able to completely let go. I'm realizing this is ego creating this story because it doesn't want to let go, any suggestions on how I can deprogram this story from my mind?

You do not have to let go, you just see that you are not actually on earth. You (awareness) are observing who-you-think-you-are in where-you-think-you-are. You have thought yourself into that earthly position, you are dreaming. Just see/observe (be aware of) this.

Edited March 4, 2018 by dorg