Don't Be So Sure You Don't Exist!

[Ether]

On one hand, yes, this could be a dream or we could wake up in a coma. Because the mind is so powerful, it can make us imagine these things.

But on the other hand, dont you know when you are dreaming? I do, it just seems so unreal, life seems real, sometimes I do get those experiences of feeling "alienated" ( like im sleeping and its not real) but this could just be an experience!

In this hand, we got our 5 senses and we never , ever left reality!

We always stayed here!

We might drift away in thought but we never left it!

So, you dont know if this is real or not! On one hand it could not be because we dont know what happens after death, on the other hand we got all this around us!

You are stressing unecesseraly when all of this could be real!

[Ether]

@Shanmugam thoughts on this? If you got evidence we exist, go all ahead

[egoless]

@Ether what makes senses in your dream different than in “reality”?  

Edited February 28, 2018 by egoless

[Ether]

@egoless To me, im talking literally about dreaming, not thought dreaming as some teachers say it (like, because we always in thought, they call this a dream, not literally doe, im talking about a real dream):

[Shanmugam]

@Ether  you are still missing the point... Listen to Rupert Spira

[Ether]

@Shanmugam What point am I missing? I dont understand what you mean by "you dont exist". Do you mean we dont PHYSICALLY exist or we are living in a THOUGHT dream?

[Hsinav]

@Ether

Here´s a profound quote on this subject from @Shanmugam  from another thread. 

On 2018-02-26 at 9:53 AM, Shanmugam said:

John has a dream. In the dream, he sees a mirage in a desert but thinks it is water. He goes near and realizes there is no water. Was the water real? No! because he realized in his dream that it was a mirage.

Was the desert real? No! Because the desert only existed in the dream. But the desert is real in the dream in relation to the water.

Is John real? No.. John thinks he is John while he is neither a body and mind. But still, John is real in relation to his next door neighbour Peter.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Hsinav

[Ether]

@Hsinav still confused lol

[Saumaya]

10 minutes ago, Ether said:

@Shanmugam What point am I missing? I dont understand what you mean by "you dont exist". Do you mean we dont PHYSICALLY exist or we are living in a THOUGHT dream?

"you" is just a concept backed by a life story. No concept is true. To get enlightened you must erase everything you hold precious.

[egoless]

1 minute ago, Ether said:

@Hsinav still confused lol

Listen to Rupert Spira indeed.

[Ether]

@Saumaya

28 minutes ago, Ether said:

@Shanmugam What point am I missing? I dont understand what you mean by "you dont exist". Do you mean we dont PHYSICALLY exist or we are living in a THOUGHT dream?

 

[Hsinav]

@Ether

You exists like a wave in the ocean, a temporarily appearance of the ocean. Your identity is the ocean not the wave.

[Joseph Maynor]

Maya is illusory.  Atman is what is real.  But Maya does rear it’s ugly head within Awareness, so we can treat it theoretically as a dream.  Obviously that’s a metaphor.  Language is not to be taken literally.  It’s what’s being pointed to by the language that’s the intended effect.  

Edited February 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Saumaya]

@Ether To say that you physically exist would be to say that you are the body, but you arent the body. So you dont exist physically, but saying "you dont exist" goes deeper than that and says you dont exist at all. I dont know what you mean by a thought dream.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Saumaya

[Ether]

@Saumaya @Joseph Maynor @Hsinav Man, your guys explanations bruh

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Ether said:

@Saumaya @Joseph Maynor @Hsinav Man, your guys explanations bruh

Does it all sound like monkey-chatter?  Like a troupe of monkeys squawking?

Edited February 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Ether]

@Joseph Maynor It just sounds confusing. But its just me doe

[egoless]

@Ether have you ever experimented with psychadelics?

[Telepresent]

@Ether Let's try this as a possible way what you call 'you' might be illusory (note the word 'might' - this is something to be investigated).

Look at the attached image.  Note that there is no white square.  I'm sure you've seen this before, and if you're like me there's a good chance you'll go "oh yes I know" and move on.  But take a moment to actually look at what's happening here, fully.  What is really there?  Just the black three-quarter circles, and our mind fills in the gap by interpreting a white square.  Even when you know that is what is happening it is very, very hard not to see it.

Now let's go to your experience for a moment.  Look at what you really, really experience.  I'm sure you've looked before, and if you're like me there's a good chance you'll go "oh yes I know" and move on.  But really look.  Isn't everything, everything, you experience which tells you that you are really a you... an experience?  Isn't it all an appearance?  This is not some trivial thing, this is very, very important.  Because you need to ask yourself - is the 'real' you, whatever you think it is, actually there, or is it implied by those appearances?  The same way that the white square is implied in this image?

Look deep, deep at what you believe the word "I" points to, and just check.  That's all.  Don't believe what others say, don't take what other people say on faith or as gospel.  Just look at what you believe, then check really fucking hard whether it's true, or whether it's only implied, like the white square.

 

[omkarshetty]

@Ether Let us be agnostic about it. Do not listen to people ,"the ones " above here, not because they are bad in some sense, but they lack the maturity of objectifying their claim. Off course Enlightenment is a game of Illusion and understanding what's real and what's not, but that doesn't mean we take anything and everything that people say for granted.

I have seen many people, in this forum, who have got nothing to-do in life but make new topics to discuss and reply to other-peoples queries all the time. There is one guy here in this topic itself. 

What I mean to say is, I do not want to live my next 45 years of my career being like these spiritual psychopaths. If I ever, even reach the 45 year mark.

Spirituality is a very important domain for one, in his/her life. You cannot judge this domain, because of its lucidity and constant-change nature.

Answering your question :-

We are perception beings, that means, we look at the world from our perspective and senses or perceptions if you call it, for an owl, black "may" be white. And the reverse in our case. It is true that everything like sound,touch,feeling,smells, happen within us, but even if we die, the world still remains. Reality is like MC Escher's Painting. 

If it co-exists this way then, we must admit that we sometimes do not know why certain things are the way they are. Claiming mysteries to be the ultimate truth of existence is mere stupidity. Being Agnostic about the world and yourself made you reach to-this point, the brain is used only a 6 %, I am not sure about it though, look at the possibilities, we got ahead of us. @Ether. We may be able to find out what this whole paradigm is all about, one day, by looking at it from an outer paradigm, just to make it more confusing . Lets be agnostic and lets not claim and judge enlightenment and consciousness.