Secularism vs Islam!

[MarkusSweden]

My country has been sadly poor when it comes to spiritually. The atheist and materialist paradigm ruled my country for long, still does.

It's all about capitalism, consumerism and ego. It's a good life money wise. And laws and order always worked fine. And people are friendly. 

But people have been hollow for so long. No spice of God in the collective consciousness so to speak. 

However, now Islam is making huge progress. Mosques are built everywhere. I really like some aspects of this muslim movement in my county. For example.. 

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*When I go to my local muslim supermarket, they don't sell alcohol at all. I really like this. They don't consume this shitty drug and I just love it. And people are no longer drunk and screaming on the streets at weekends because they know that muslims despise that. You can go for a walk in a Saturday night without screaming aggressive drunk people at the streets. 

*Muslims are seldom secularised, they have God in their hearts and you can feel it. Life has mysterious qualities to it. Life is not just about carrier, bragging, material gods etcetera. 

*We have a lot of Adhans these days, one is where I live. I love the sound. So beautiful. Although I don't understand the context, the sound is spiritual and contemplative and meditative. Just listening to the video below. 

*Islam has a core that's called sufism. And I just love sufism. To me sufism is absolute truth. And it preach unconditional love, tolerance and non duality(God is everything). These are my core values as well. Everything you need on the spiritual path you will find in sufism. It's like an extract of all the best teachings of buddhism, vedanta, non duality, hinduism etcetera. This is why I really love the Islamic movement in Sweden. 

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However, not everything is positive, there are drawbacks as well. For example I prefer secularised laws. And I prefer the gender equalities that Sweden use to be the best in the world at. With the progress of Islam we unfortunately have some of these things today as well..

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*female genital mutilation. We cut off the clitoris of little girls. 

*No gender equality, women suppose to cover themselves and must obey to their husband. The man is allowed to beat and rape their wives if they like to. 

*Sharia laws(coming soon if we continue to support Islam). Sharia is already practiced though, but it's more of an underground phenomenon so far. Recently we cut the hands of a little boy that steal some food because of hunger. 

*We also have a lot of gang rapes these days. Often we stabbed the girls with knifes or set fire to their genitals afterwards. The violence often happens to Swedish women as a punishment for not cover themselves. Muslim girls are treated better in this respect. They only receive the gang rape, but no punishment afterwards. 

*Humour, which I love, is not allowed in the same way. A single joke on the prophets behalf, and you will receive death threat. You are not allowed to make fun or criticise any aspect of Islam. 

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As you can see there are many beautiful things about Islam, I really love to have spirituality back to my country. The notion of God was totally absent before, now it's a whole new scene with many beautiful adhans giving us spiritual trust and hops every morning with all these Azans. 

Unfortunately there are a few bad stuff as well as I've listed. You have to buy the whole package so to speak. Even though I gravitate towards supporting Sweden to be a Islamic country, it's still a close call for me because of the bad stuff. 

Therefore I ask you. Shall I support the Islam movement, or shall I support the conservative secular movement? 

Now listening to this BEAUTIFUL Azan. It almost brings me to tears! Thank you!

Namaste.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Ether]

In the end, all it matters is your own happiness. You might drive yoursel insane trying to change others

[MarkusSweden]

6 minutes ago, Ether said:

In the end, all it matters is your own happiness. You might drive yoursel insane trying to change others

It's not about change. It's just that there are two strong movements of today, you suppose to support one of them. Citizens like to know which side you are on, if you're into the conservative secular movement or the Islamic one. 

For me it's a close call, although I probably will support the Islamic movement. 

This thread is just to sort things out. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Monkey-man]

No Thor and Odin worshippers anymore?

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Monkey-man

[MarkusSweden]

2 minutes ago, Monkey-man said:

No Thor and Odin worshippers anymore?

 

That's an OLD paradigm. Thor and Odin are nothing but mythology that you have to study a few hours in school as a kid.  

Edited February 27, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Monkey-man]

@MarkusSweden India still worships Brahman and other million gods so why not

[MarkusSweden]

30 minutes ago, Outer said:

Are you making all these culture war threads to try and trigger people?

Haha.  

Nah, I'm serious, but maybe I like provoke people to think by showing how absurd it looks if you don't view reality as black or white. 

Because reality is pretty absurd, the most beautiful and the most ugly can coexist in the same culture. Which it does, in ALL cultures. 

But people like to have black and white opinions. So it confuses some people, when you are not judging and in a neutral way show the upside and downside of the same coin. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Steph1988]

Just throwing it in here for fun not going to debate it enjoy.

[MarkusSweden]

@Steph1988 Thanks, pretty accurate! Who is this Paul joseph watson?

[WildeChilde]

@MarkusSweden Markus are you Muslim yourself?  I ask because it is difficult to tell from the writing you have in italics and use of "we".

[MarkusSweden]

5 minutes ago, WildeChilde said:

@MarkusSweden Markus are you Muslim yourself?  I ask because it is difficult to tell from the writing you have in italics and use of "we".

No, I'm not. I use "we" as in "we, here in Sweden" 

It feels so stigmatising to say "muslim gang rape.." etcetera. 

[WildeChilde]

Okay I understand now, thank you.  

To answer your question, please support the conservative secular movement.  It'll be heart-breaking to see a fine country like yours implode if y'all let this continue.   

[hundreth]

So you're supporting the Islamic "movement" because they don't drink, they're a religion, and they makes sounds you like. Got it.

[MarkusSweden]

9 minutes ago, hundreth said:

So you're supporting the Islamic "movement" because they don't drink, they're a religion, and they makes sounds you like. Got it.

No, you obviously didn't read the whole OP. I basically say that I'm indifferent atm whether I should support the secular or the Islamic movement. 

If you read carefully you see that I listed both positive AND negative aspects of the islamic invasion. 

It's a huge cultural change going on right now, and I just want to sort my thoughts a little bit in this thread.

Basically, you have to made up your mind if you prefer the secular culture we have had up to now or if you support the new muslim culture in order to know which side you should stand on.

The polarisation is huge at the moment, and if you don't choose what side of the coin you belong to, you will be marginalised and end up in no mans land with no collective identity. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Nahm]

@MarkusSweden Rent a billboard. Bring awareness to FGM.

[SgtPepper]

I used to find islam interesting when I made a muslim friend in university, I listened to a few lectures, bought an English translated Quran, but overtime I realized that he was extreme in his devotion which is fine, but I could not connect or create a friendship with him due to his devotion. 

I mentioned once to my friend the possibility of Moses using a psychedelic like DMT and he accused me of being blasphemous. He could not just disagree or say "That's interesting, but I don't believe that." he told me to not say it again because its disrespectful... This is just one example out of many and we ended up not talking to each other much especially because I realized how intolerant he was. 

Sufism is criticized by many muslims as being blasphemous by the way.

Here is a video of Norman Ali Khan talking about the spinning ritual practiced by sufis. Intolerant of any other practices outside of Muhammad's book.

Once I realized that the mainstream thought is that listening to music is "haram", I gave up trying to appreciate them since I plan on being a life long musician. A lot of muslims come off neurotic.

Not saying all Muslim folks are like this because they are not, but this particular experience definitely left me with a bad impression of muslims for a while that I needed to work through.

But I do like Sufism and I have greatly enjoyed Rumi's work. 

[Truth Addict]

The Azan is saying:

"Allah is greater. (x4)

I witness that there's no other God but Allah. (x2)

I witness that Mohammad is the prophet of Allah. (x2)

Come on to prayer. (x2)

Come on to true success. (x2)

Allah is greater. (x2)

There's no other God but Allah."

...

All the problems you mentioned with Islam don't really stem from the original version (except for the humor thing).

Sufism is the most spiritual cult of Islam. It focuses on the relationship between human and Allah, knowing that we are part of the whole.

Still, there are many false beliefs that they have, for example, children are not supposed to be punished for their innocent crimes. That's the original version of Islam. Same thing goes for females vs. males, they are not equal, that's true, but everyone must be treated with justice according to the Qur'an.

Unfortunately, these new versions of religion are always corrupted. Therefore, you will have to do the research.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Truth Addict

[MarkusSweden]

3 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

 

But I do like Sufism and I have greatly enjoyed Rumi's work. 

Thank you! Great input! 

Rumi's work is great btw.  

[MarkusSweden]

9 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

The Azan is saying:

"Allah is greater. (x4)

I witness that there's no other God but Allah. (x2)

I witness that Mohammad is the prophet of Allah. (x2)

Come on to prayer. (x2)

Come on to true success. (x2)

Allah is greater. (x2)

There's no other God but Allah."

 

Cool, thank you! 

I love to here this in the mornings, to me it give me relaxing distance to my trivial mind activity and thoughts, I feel Gods presence and how deep and mysterious life is. It goes directly to my heart. I feel love.  Kinda cool to have it in Sweden. Multiculturalism gets a lot of critique, but this is a really nice thing I think. My country feels more exotic and less rational and "boring" 

Edited February 27, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[SgtPepper]

"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it." - Rumi