The Blind Men and the Elephant

[Shanmugam]

There is a good story in the tradition. This story is very useful  for people who are in the spiritual path. 

Four blind men who are blind from birth were trying to understand how an elephant looks like.

One man touched and felt the elephant's trunk for about an hour  and said "I found it! I finally got it.. Elephant looks like a pipe"

Another man felt the ear and said "I would have said the same thing before.. You have to go a little deeper because the elephant looks like a winnowing basket"

The third man who was feeling the elephant's stomach said "BAHAAAAA! that's hilarious... Everyone's experience is different, so why are you stating things so authoritatively? In my experience, elephant looks like a huge pot!"

The fourth man who was touching the elephant's leg got frustrated and said "Folks, you guys still don't understand! Elephant looks like a pillar".

.......................................................................................

This story exists in almost all the non-dual traditions. Here is an expert from a Buddha's tale:

Then they began to quarrel, shouting, “Yes, it is!” “No, it is not!” “An elephant is not that!” “Yes, it’s like that!” and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.

Brethren, the raja [who in this version had presented the elephant] was delighted with the scene.

Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing. … In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus.

Then the Exalted One rendered this meaning by uttering this verse of uplift:

“O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim

For preacher and monk the honoured name!

For, quarrelling, each to his view they cling.

Such folk see only one side of a thing.”

(Udana 68–69)

Edited February 26, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Saumaya]

Ah , I think Ive heard a version of this story from sadhguru.

Good Post

[Shanmugam]

35 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Ah , I think Ive heard a version of this story from sadhguru.

Good Post

Yes.. Sadhguru talks about many things that he understood from Osho's books.. 

[MarkusSweden]

10 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Yes.. Sadhguru talks about many things that he understood from Osho's books.. 

One thing about Osho that puzzles me a bit is that he wanted to have enemies!?

Osho is one of the greatest teachers ever, but he failed to transcend his ego on this one. 

He said he wanted people to love or hate him, but not to be indifferent to him. (sounds like ego to me) 

He also said.. for any enemy you get you create space for a friend. (something along those lines, also somewhat a statement from ego imo) 

But one should always seek for kindness and love for everyone like jesus did. 

sorry, maybe this was off topic, never mind  

I like those anecdotes and short stories you and other provides, it often says more that flat out "true" statements and claims! 

Edited February 26, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Shanmugam]

Just now, MarkusSweden said:

One thing about Osho that puzzles me a bit is that he wanted to have enemies!?

Osho is one of the greatest teachers ever, but he failed to transcend his ego on this one. 

He said he wanted people to love or hate him, but not to be indifferent to him. (sounds like ego to me) 

He also said.. for any enemy you get you create space for a friend. (something along those lines, also somewhat a statement from ego imo) 

But one should always seek for kindness and love for everyone like jesus did. 

Osho's methods were unconventional and it is very easy to misunderstand him... This reminds me of another discussion we had once. He was just making sure many people get what he says and his message reaches many people. So, he played many tricks. I have explained a few things in the first part of this Quora answer: https://www.quora.com/What-is-your-viewpoint-on-Jaggi-Vasudev-in-comparison-with-Osho/answer/Shanmugam-P-12.

[Saumaya]

7 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Yes.. Sadhguru talks about many things that he understood from Osho's books.. 

 I bought a lot of books on osho once, but I had to skim them because they were mostly weird or talked about stuff I already knew. Sadhguru on the other hand is different. I got a lot of insight from him. Maybe I dont resonate with Osho. I dont know.

[Saumaya]

@Shanmugam Ofcourse sadhguru doesnt want too much oppsition, why would he?He is not just a spiritual master, he is more like a celebrity now. He has to be relatable to the mainstream.

[Shanmugam]

1 minute ago, Saumaya said:

 I bought a lot of books on osho once, but I had to skim them because they were mostly weird or talked about stuff I already knew. Sadhguru on the other hand is different. I got a lot of insight from him. Maybe I dont resonate with Osho. I dont know.

Osho was just gossiping.. He himself said that.. . What you read in his books are gossips he made for long hours. 

I think you can resonate with everything which is posted in this thread:

 

[Shanmugam]

9 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

@Shanmugam Ofcourse sadhguru doesnt want too much oppsition, why would he?He is not just a spiritual master, he is more like a celebrity now. He has to be relatable to the mainstream.

Let me quote a part of that Quora answer here:

Let us come to Sadhguru vs Osho. Now, please note that I don’t care much about plagiarism or copyright. Those are trivial things. My emphasis is on two things in general:

1.Sadhguru stated that he never read any scriptures. He even stated the same thing in Mahashivarathri 2018. That is how he began the discourse, insisting that he in fact never read anything about spirituality. But there are obvious examples which I have written about, that shows that a lot of his content comes from Osho. So, if he has read Osho’s books, he must have read other books too. This explains why he is stating stories from Shiva Purana and even Periya puranam (A Tamil book). Because, he has read them all. This signals a pretense. What is the need to deliberately hide these things?

2. Anyone can talk such things by reading books. If you read 20 - 30 Osho books and get some intellectual clarity, you will sound enlightened, even if you are living like everyone else. You will talk wise things but your mind will be with the same kind of conditioning. Because of this, you will also end up saying things that comes from your own conditioning, beliefs and likes and dislikes. At the end of the day, you will end up misleading people instead of guiding them towards enlightenment. Osho warned about this many times, saying that this will be similar to a blind man leading another blind man.

..................................................................................................................

You probably watched some best videos of Sadhguru. He is insightful sometimes, but not always... He talks about many things which are distractions. I myself was distracted after listening to him but I couldn't realize this when I was a seeker; he certainly made an influence on me,..

[Saumaya]

5 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Osho was just gossiping.. He himself said that.. . What you read in his books are gossips he made for long hours. 

I think you can resonate with everything which is posted in this thread:

 

Again I read some stuff throughout the thread but its nothing that I dont know already . I think its more of an issue with me than Osho. I think I know and understand enough spirituality for one lifetime. I will start moving towards other areas of study soon. I ve watched so much sadhguru that I can even tell what he is going to say next. I think Ive had enough.

[Saumaya]

7 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

You probably watched some best videos of Sadhguru. He is insightful sometimes, but not always... He talks about many things which are distractions. I myself was distracted after listening to him but I couldn't realize this when I was a seeker; he certainly made an influence on me,

Hmm....he could be distracting. I only took what works, I dont have any interest in his life or whether he was lying sometimes or not. Fortunately I found about sadhguru only after enlightenment so it was easy to tell what was useful and what was not.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Saumaya

[Shanmugam]

1 minute ago, Saumaya said:

Hmm....he could be distracting. I only took what works, I dont have any interest in his life or whether he is lying sometimes or not. Fortunately I found about sadhguru only after enlightenment so it was easy to tell what was useful and what is not.

He is very distracting to the extent that his followers really don't understand about spiritual path clearly. There is a difference between 1 year of listening to him and 15 years of listening to him, going to his Ashram and satsangs and reading books. He talks about things like what is the best direction to sleep, etc etc way more than what he talks about non-duality.  

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Sadhguru talks about many things that he understood from Osho's books

Sadhguru reading Osho's books??

Lol. Man, you are hilarious.

The Three Blind Men is a classic story from India, thousands of years old. Osho didn't invent it.

You got a chip on your shoulder about Sadhguru which is clouding your judgement.

[Saumaya]

4 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

He talks about things like what is the best direction to sleep

There could be some science behind those esoteric sorts of things but it doesn't interest me. Seems like he had you running in circles for quite a while lol

[Shanmugam]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Sadhguru reading Osho's books??

Lol. Man, you are hilarious.

The Three Blind Men is a classic story from India, thousands of years old. Osho didn't invent it.

I am pretty sure he has read Osho's books. I know that the blind men story is a classic story from India. But I also know very well that he has read Osho. His own followers know this and agree with this, but Sadhguru would never talk about Osho.

If you really need evidence and willing to read an entire post I wrote, then please read this:  https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/sadhguru-on-osho-the-two-diamonds-to-discover-your-inner-self/

I know it is very difficult to convince people who admire Sadhguru on many things; because I was one of those admirers too. 

[Shanmugam]

@Leo Gura  You are talking about open-mindedness; but do you see you are being close minded here. You had no idea about my connection with him and his ashram. 

[Shanmugam]

7 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

There could be some science behind those esoteric sorts of things but it doesn't interest me. Seems like he had you running in circles for quite a while lol

The scientific explanation he gave for that was very funny. He said that blood contains iron and the magnetic force of north pole makes influence on the blood because of that. But he has already made two blunders here.. Blood doesn't contain pure iron which a magnet can attract. And  the effect of the magnetic force of north pole is very very low and it doesn't have such a power to make an influence. 

You may come to know about him one day... He is a very dangerous man. Even after enlightenment, I used to defend him. Only after some deep research I was able to see many things very clearly...

[Leo Gura]

@Shanmugam I have heard you talk about your connection at the ashram.

I just find it hard to believe Sadhguru would read Osho. He's way beyond that.

Sadhguru claims he hasn't even read the Gita.

I don't blindly admire him. I just know a master when I see one.

[Shanmugam]

@Leo Gura  If two people make the same mistake, can it be a coincidence? Probably.. But if there are too many such mistakes, can it be a coincidence?

There is an Upanishad called Chandogya upanishad, one of the oldest upanishad which is famous for the greatest statement in spirituality: Tat tvam Asi – You are that. It was an instruction given to Svethakethu by his father. Svethakethu is also mentioned in Brihadaranyaka upanishad and Kausitaki upanishad.

Hi father asked Svethakethu the following question when he comes back from Gurukula after learning Vedas:

“have you, my dear, ever asked for that instruction by which one hears what cannot be heard, by which one perceives what cannot be perceived, by which one knows what cannot be known?

Then he begins to give him a long discourse which you can read here: Oldest Teaching Of Advaita – Excerpt from Chandogya Upanishad

There is also a different guy called Sathyakama mentioned in the same Upanishad. His name is not mentioned in any other Upanishads. He is sent by his Guru Gauthama to tend four hundred cows, and come back when they multiply into a thousand.

As you see, these are two different stories of two different people.

But Osho, when talking about Svethakethu, mixed these two stories as one and told as the story of Svethakethu: http://www.osho.com/iosho/library/read-book/online-library-supreme-svetaketu-taught-78d59dde-9b0?p=867d5652b07d80469abc69481a91e28f

Osho often mixed names like this. But he has said many times that he may not be factually correct. He just quotes those stories to make his point. I never found that as a problem. Because I only focused on the essence anyway.

But Sadhguru, when narrating the story of Svethakethu in a podcast, narrated it exactly the same way as Osho and also made the same mistake. He also merged Sathyakama and Svethakethu’s stories into one. Do you think this is a coincidence?

He also named the podcast as ‘Svethakethu and cows’ while it was Sathyakama who actually went to tend the cows. You can listen to it here: Svetaketu and the Cows

Sadhguru said that he never read any spiritual books and all he knew about spirituality came to him as a mystical transmission when his guru touched him with his walking stick. If it was true, he should have got the right story from Chandogya Upanishad. Instead, how did he get the Osho’s version?

Edited February 26, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Ether]

@Shanmugam Hey man You posted a lot today, i had to unfollow you!

 

Keep posting doe!