The Blind Men and the Elephant

[MarkusSweden]

@Ether He is great, he probably know more then the two of us together. 

He has ever wrote a book, did you know? 

[Ether]

@MarkusSweden Yes, I love that dude. He has a lot of knowledge. I already knew most of it. Shit, i know a lot of stuff, I just dont ALWAYS know how to enlarge it (write more) and give examples. But i do understand most enlightenment type stuff.

[MarkusSweden]

1 minute ago, Ether said:

@MarkusSweden Yes, I love that dude. He has a lot of knowledge. I already knew most of it. Shit, i know a lot of stuff, I just dont ALWAYS know how to enlarge it (write more) and give examples. But i do understand most enlightenment type stuff.

Thats great, I'm still in a learning phase. Today I understand that there is two "worlds" so to speak, one is absolute(infinite/nondual) and one is relative(matter/duality). But at the same time these two "worlds" are just one, since reality is NONdual after all. Ta da. 

This is correct, right?

[Ether]

@MarkusSweden One exists and the other exists....

 

in your mind

 

Im still in the learning phase, i got knowledge but i dont quite got all the experience. I havent awakened yet. But i did get an awakening experience some days ago that the effects still remain!

Im not sure there is a limit to knowledge, i think you always can learn more, just that there isnt a need to do it anymore after a certain phase

[Shanmugam]

40 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

Thats great, I'm still in a learning phase. Today I understand that there is two "worlds" so to speak, one is absolute(infinite/nondual) and one is relative(matter/duality). But at the same time these two "worlds" are just one, since reality is NONdual after all. Ta da. 

This is correct, right?

Yes... It will sound very paradoxical... Because, enlightenment itself is a merger of the subject and object, making all the distinctions disappear.

So, at the absolute level, there are no levels... The absolute, relative (and there is one more, which is the dream or imagined reality) are only used as teaching devices and communication devices... So, the distinction of absolute and relative only applies to the relative...

[MarkusSweden]

7 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Yes... It will sound very paradoxical... Because, enlightenment itself is a merger of the subject and object, making all the distinctions disappear.

So, at the absolute level, there are no levels... The absolute, relative (and there is one more, which is the dream or imagined reality) are only used as teaching devices and communication devices... So, the distinction of absolute and relative only applies to the relative...

And when you understand this intellectually, then you understand you can't understand this intellectually!

Yet another paradox.   

Because then you finally understand life is about experience, not about thoughts about it. 

[Shanmugam]

3 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

And when you understand this intellectually, then you understand you can't understand this intellectually!

Yet another paradox.   

Because then you finally understand life is about experience, not about thoughts about it. 

Yes...

[KrackJack]

On 2/26/2018 at 5:02 PM, Shanmugam said:

@Leo Gura  If two people make the same mistake, can it be a coincidence? Probably.. But if there are too many such mistakes, can it be a coincidence?

There is an Upanishad called Chandogya upanishad, one of the oldest upanishad which is famous for the greatest statement in spirituality: Tat tvam Asi – You are that. It was an instruction given to Svethakethu by his father. Svethakethu is also mentioned in Brihadaranyaka upanishad and Kausitaki upanishad.

Hi father asked Svethakethu the following question when he comes back from Gurukula after learning Vedas:

“have you, my dear, ever asked for that instruction by which one hears what cannot be heard, by which one perceives what cannot be perceived, by which one knows what cannot be known?

Then he begins to give him a long discourse which you can read here: Oldest Teaching Of Advaita – Excerpt from Chandogya Upanishad

There is also a different guy called Sathyakama mentioned in the same Upanishad. His name is not mentioned in any other Upanishads. He is sent by his Guru Gauthama to tend four hundred cows, and come back when they multiply into a thousand.

As you see, these are two different stories of two different people.

But Osho, when talking about Svethakethu, mixed these two stories as one and told as the story of Svethakethu: http://www.osho.com/iosho/library/read-book/online-library-supreme-svetaketu-taught-78d59dde-9b0?p=867d5652b07d80469abc69481a91e28f

Osho often mixed names like this. But he has said many times that he may not be factually correct. He just quotes those stories to make his point. I never found that as a problem. Because I only focused on the essence anyway.

But Sadhguru, when narrating the story of Svethakethu in a podcast, narrated it exactly the same way as Osho and also made the same mistake. He also merged Sathyakama and Svethakethu’s stories into one. Do you think this is a coincidence?

He also named the podcast as ‘Svethakethu and cows’ while it was Sathyakama who actually went to tend the cows. You can listen to it here: Svetaketu and the Cows

Sadhguru said that he never read any spiritual books and all he knew about spirituality came to him as a mystical transmission when his guru touched him with his walking stick. If it was true, he should have got the right story from Chandogya Upanishad. Instead, how did he get the Osho’s version?

 

On 2/26/2018 at 5:00 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Shanmugam I have heard you talk about your connection at the ashram.

I just find it hard to believe Sadhguru would read Osho. He's way beyond that.

Sadhguru claims he hasn't even read the Gita.

I don't blindly admire him. I just know a master when I see one.

I happened to attend a few programs at Sadhguru's center - and what those programs are capable to do with you are

mind-blowing (body/energiy too  get blown out). 

 

I am NOT an enlightened being yet, and am a seeker - but it does not really needs you to be enlightened to identify a genuine master.

I agree  that the content of JV and Osho may seem similar and even that he might have read that but it's not about copyright but about the content.

I also do not agree with his claims of not reading Geeta or any other scriptures - I agree with the fact that Sadhguru can lie - but from what I see he is not a moral or even a good person - his objective appears to be pushing most of the population on the spiritual journey and make them a genuine seeker with minimal resistance.

 

A major difference between Sadhguru and many other masters (including Osho) is that his work on people is not just on the level of mind, he uses the body and energies (Kriya) to a GREAT extent.

One does not just makes other people(me) get out of the body and bring them back OR One doesn't just fills you with energies when between an exhaustive activity you are total broken and can't even get-up ( I was not drugged or hypnotized in the program that m very sure of and I was also not supposed to tell such things outside - oops).

 

M not a fan of that guy only,  I am a fan of Vivekananda, Osho and Eckhart Tolle too... but the work this guy can do with you is phenomenal.

Yes - he is in a marketing mode always on the TV and is repeating most of his content - but how many people do you see or have come across, who can repeat the same thing thousands of time with total freshness and enthusiasm within them? He is very hard-core and way too aggressive in terms of what he wants to get done which may not be evident because of the ease in which he conducts himself.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by KrackJack

[Ether]

@Shanmugamhave u been at a meditation retreat? ima be on a meditation sessions. my physichiatrist gave me that suggestion and since i love meditation 

[Shanmugam]

@KrackJack If anything happened, that happened because of you... 

[Ether]

@Shanmugam sham outchea here exposing emails and shiet lol

[KrackJack]

6 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

@KrackJack If anything happened, that happened because of you... 

 

 

M not sure what  to make out of that snippet..  I just understand that we can never know about  an "Enlightened Person" just through his talks or content he says. It's many times with the authority with which they speak and the longing they have to share something, which they most of the times cannot do directly.

 

Something funny I noticed - Osho was born in the same year as my Grandfather and Sadhguru was born in the same year of my Father.

We do discuss/see/are impacted by certain revolutionary people when we grow up - this appears to be the case here. I do not see that as a reason to doubt someone's mastery.

 

There is something at experiential level and something at capability level - Sadhguru may not be the most efficient but I do not see a greater Master than him in long time. If we see his activities and schedule, I just can say that something that made him that robust and Balanced and works for him will definitely work for any other human being. (You can say that it has nothing to do with Enlightenment  - my point here is about ability to impart something)

Regarding him being a "Sham" -> That is the risk we all take when becoming a seeker and can continuously work over it. No-one needs to be a blind follower of anyone.

With current media/technology, There is always a lot to say/pin-point against some guy when he is alive because there is a continuous inflow of each and every activity or statement they make. As a seeker I know I need to gather all-that which works for me and let go the rest.

Note: If we are going off-topic - you can inbox me your encounters with JV which make you think "less" of him.

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by KrackJack

[SOUL]

You still won't let it go.... you let your ego rule you.

[KrackJack]

21 minutes ago, SOUL said:

You still won't let it go.... you let your ego rule you.

How to rise above the Ego?