The paradox of life purpose and Leo's video

[billiesimon]

Leo's video "Motivational speech for building a passionate life" is very inspiring, and focuses a lot on being in contact with your survival instinct and your drive to succeed.
Which is GREAT, because we're very tamed nowadays.

But I still don't get a paradox inside this concept.
If reality is just an egoic dream, and everyone is part of everything, if the ego is an illusion, and the need to fight is an illusion.. what's the point of getting in touch with your instincts and your animal core? 

Isn't success pointless from an enlightened perspective? 
And I'm not saying this as an enlightened guy. I'm just a noob, and that's why I still don't get this paradox. Isnt' the ego just a result of evolutionary pressure to survive? Seeing the others as competition is what creates the division of the ego. So what's the purpose of getting in touch with your animal core to succeed? Why succeeding? And don't get me wrong, I WANT to succeed, but I don't undestand the paradox of wanting to be aware of the wholeness of the universe while wanting to win.

If Leo himself could explain it would be great!

[NoSelfSelf]

Everything is included in this inifinite reality...after enlightment you still do everything you did before(mastering yourself),or you go live in a cave idk..seeing it as an illusion doesnt mean you dont learn it make it better etc

[Rilles]

This has been discussed a billion times and Leo has spoken about this in his many of his videos too.

[dude]

Quote

After enlightenment, the dishes

@billiesimon You still need to do something. In the video blow Leo goes into "responsible marketing" the fact that you could also use your "animal core" to push things to people that actually raises their consciousness.

 

[Gabriel Antonio]

As Leo always puts it, "What's your alternative?" 

[Nahm]

19 hours ago, billiesimon said:

Leo's video "Motivational speech for building a passionate life" is very inspiring, and focuses a lot on being in contact with your survival instinct and your drive to succeed.
Which is GREAT, because we're very tamed nowadays.

But I still don't get a paradox inside this concept.
If reality is just an egoic dream, and everyone is part of everything, if the ego is an illusion, and the need to fight is an illusion.. what's the point of getting in touch with your instincts and your animal core? 

Isn't success pointless from an enlightened perspective? 
And I'm not saying this as an enlightened guy. I'm just a noob, and that's why I still don't get this paradox. Isnt' the ego just a result of evolutionary pressure to survive? Seeing the others as competition is what creates the division of the ego. So what's the purpose of getting in touch with your animal core to succeed? Why succeeding? And don't get me wrong, I WANT to succeed, but I don't undestand the paradox of wanting to be aware of the wholeness of the universe while wanting to win.

If Leo himself could explain it would be great!

Get in touch with whatever you want, whatever works for you. Heck, 7 things that work for you are better than 6. Success is absolutely pointless, and relatively important, if you decide it is important.  But, let’s say you have that vantage point, where you are all and literally nothing matters...then what? This. This right here, what you’re doing right now. So go ahead and achieve every success you desire. A paradox of enlightened state and human state is not the goal, or point - it is not liberating - not one or the other. Unification is the point. One. That is liberation from delusion.  Enlightenment is simply the clarity of what you are. It remains without the self deceptions of what the self is. It’s no end all be all when talking about the relativity of living life. (Unless that’s what someone wants) The ego is a deception that God knowingly adds. It’s hilarious really. It just gets made out to be serious when people reference the illusion. But it’s not serious, that’s illusion. 

Unenlightened: I am this human. I work through doubts and fears to achieve things and enjoy experiences. (God operating under God’s own deception)

Enlightened: I am.   I’ll do things as this guy, too.  I’ll enjoy the shit out of every moment. There is nothing which needs doing, and forever to do it. 

It’s not that there was a Big Bang, and billions of years of evolution, and the biological forming of a human, and advancement of a human brain, which then was able to conceptualize, and then realize it’s true nature as God.

It’s all a backstory that is false.  There is no need to acknowledge it, at all. 

[Hello from Russia]

@Nahm So basically you're promoting to adapt this enlightnment "mindset" and enjoy everything we do regardless?

[Nahm]

@Hello from Russia Do what you want.  That’s it. 

[smd]

On 2/25/2018 at 5:02 PM, billiesimon said:

Leo's video "Motivational speech for building a passionate life" is very inspiring, and focuses a lot on being in contact with your survival instinct and your drive to succeed.
Which is GREAT, because we're very tamed nowadays.

But I still don't get a paradox inside this concept.
If reality is just an egoic dream, and everyone is part of everything, if the ego is an illusion, and the need to fight is an illusion.. what's the point of getting in touch with your instincts and your animal core? 

Isn't success pointless from an enlightened perspective? 
And I'm not saying this as an enlightened guy. I'm just a noob, and that's why I still don't get this paradox. Isnt' the ego just a result of evolutionary pressure to survive? Seeing the others as competition is what creates the division of the ego. So what's the purpose of getting in touch with your animal core to succeed? Why succeeding? And don't get me wrong, I WANT to succeed, but I don't undestand the paradox of wanting to be aware of the wholeness of the universe while wanting to win.

3

 

This argument comes up a lot.  It seems like the argument is based on a belief system: If we're in a dream, if it's enlighten this or that, then why do anything?   Well if you're not enlightened, how do you know this?  You're just buying into someone else's belief system.  And as you've probably heard in Leo's latest videos & insights, it's a 20-40 year journey.  So if you're not willing to commit the time investment involved to see for yourself (and again _no guarantees you'll ever experience anything_!!), and if you take it on faith, you're copping out to actually doing anything useful or making a contribution to society.

Also, I fail to see the part about competition & success.  You say you have Leo's Life Purpose course right?   What happened to doing a skill just for the sake of doing the skill?   Hello, mastery.  If you're not mastering anything then you haven't found a life purpose.  Life purpose should be the antithesis to success & winning...those are just small parts of the whole, or used for paying your bills, like a day job.

Come to think of it, I'm not even sure what an "enlightened perspective" would actually mean.  That's buying into a belief system & going against the goal of having firsthand experience such as using meditation techniques.  An enlightened perspective isn't systems thinking.  If someone tells me that life is just a dream, so what?  I still have to pay the bills & feel the pain of this machine called a body that I inhabit.  I also get to take the pleasure in working on my life purpose(s) such as writing & music making.

How can something that never lives or dies live forever?  Why would a God hide infinity from himself?   Maybe by being alive & being fooled by our waking dream is a welcome respite.  Otherwise, what would be the reason to hide?...I can see the conundrums, but I can't really take an enlightened perspective because of that 20-40 year barrier & it may never happen even if you did it the whole 40+ years.  Much easier to work on a life purpose, that's for sure.

[Ether]

@smd We dont actually know how much time it will take. Im 1 year and some months in and i might have made more progress than people who have been doing it for years

[ppfeiff]

@smd

23 hours ago, smd said:

 

This argument comes up a lot.  It seems like the argument is based on a belief system: If we're in a dream, if it's enlighten this or that, then why do anything?   Well if you're not enlightened, how do you know this?  You're just buying into someone else's belief system.  And as you've probably heard in Leo's latest videos & insights, it's a 20-40 year journey.  So if you're not willing to commit the time investment involved to see for yourself (and again _no guarantees you'll ever experience anything_!!), and if you take it on faith, you're copping out to actually doing anything useful or making a contribution to society.

Also, I fail to see the part about competition & success.  You say you have Leo's Life Purpose course right?   What happened to doing a skill just for the sake of doing the skill?   Hello, mastery.  If you're not mastering anything then you haven't found a life purpose.  Life purpose should be the antithesis to success & winning...those are just small parts of the whole, or used for paying your bills, like a day job.

Come to think of it, I'm not even sure what an "enlightened perspective" would actually mean.  That's buying into a belief system & going against the goal of having firsthand experience such as using meditation techniques.  An enlightened perspective isn't systems thinking.  If someone tells me that life is just a dream, so what?  I still have to pay the bills & feel the pain of this machine called a body that I inhabit.  I also get to take the pleasure in working on my life purpose(s) such as writing & music making.

How can something that never lives or dies live forever?  Why would a God hide infinity from himself?   Maybe by being alive & being fooled by our waking dream is a welcome respite.  Otherwise, what would be the reason to hide?...I can see the conundrums, but I can't really take an enlightened perspective because of that 20-40 year barrier & it may never happen even if you did it the whole 40+ years.  Much easier to work on a life purpose, that's for sure.

Enlightened folk aren't speaking from a belief system when they say all of reality is an illusion, or that it's a dream. They're speaking from experience. Sure, if the unenlightened folk intellectualize this point, it's simply buying into a belief system. However, this argument is like Leo saying personal development works, and as a newbie for example, you're writing it off as a belief system, and therefore it shouldn't even be considered as a pursuit in your life.

There are a number of enlightened folk on this forum who became enlightened in much less than 20-40 years of 'work'. Some realized liberation as young as 16, and others began and realized it only in their 20's.

I can't agree with this all-or-nothing perspective: Either LP and fulfillment or no LP and no fulfillment. Many enlightened folks themselves don't even a solid direction of where their lives are headed in the next month, let alone 10 years from now, because they are utterly immersed in the present moment. Yet, simultaneously, they do what they desire at each moment, and paradoxically, their actions culminate/add to a life purpose as perceived from the 'outside' over time. Eckhart Tolle and other spiritual teachers are doing just that. 

To ignore the facts of our reality (i.e. that you don't exist), which you can prove to yourself, and wisdom of wise others, has the potential to lead to delusion and further suffering.

The reality is, that there is no one who is pursuing a life purpose, or not pursuing one. 

However, it doesn't hurt if the body is fulfilling upon its highest desires at each and every moment.

In this way, I think @Nahm's general advice is good: do what you want. You can still live a life purpose by doing what you desire in each and every moment, even having never taken an LP course. If you desire to master a skill for its own sake, great! Do that. Follow your bliss, and don't take things so seriously  In this way, chopping wood and carrying water today is still chopping wood and carrying water tomorrow. I just think it's more nuanced than this harsh attitude of all or nothing, while I do understand that perspective because I was there too. I'd love to hear feedback on these thoughts. Cheers. 

 

 

 

[Saumaya]

On 26/02/2018 at 11:49 PM, Nahm said:

Get in touch with whatever you want, whatever works for you. Heck, 7 things that work for you are better than 6. Success is absolutely pointless, and relatively important, if you decide it is important.  But, let’s say you have that vantage point, where you are all and literally nothing matters...then what? This. This right here, what you’re doing right now. So go ahead and achieve every success you desire. A paradox of enlightened state and human state is not the goal, or point - it is not liberating - not one or the other. Unification is the point. One. That is liberation from delusion.  Enlightenment is simply the clarity of what you are. It remains without the self deceptions of what the self is. It’s no end all be all when talking about the relativity of living life. (Unless that’s what someone wants) The ego is a deception that God knowingly adds. It’s hilarious really. It just gets made out to be serious when people reference the illusion. But it’s not serious, that’s illusion. 

Unenlightened: I am this human. I work through doubts and fears to achieve things and enjoy experiences. (God operating under God’s own deception)

Enlightened: I am.   I’ll do things as this guy, too.  I’ll enjoy the shit out of every moment. There is nothing which needs doing, and forever to do it. 

It’s not that there was a Big Bang, and billions of years of evolution, and the biological forming of a human, and advancement of a human brain, which then was able to conceptualize, and then realize it’s true nature as God.

It’s all a backstory that is false.  There is no need to acknowledge it, at all. 

<3

[Saumaya]

On 26/02/2018 at 4:32 AM, billiesimon said:

Isn't success pointless from an enlightened perspective?

You say it like somehow enlightenment changes reality. Reality was always the same, only the false self disappears. There was always no meaning.

[alyra]

humans are driven. find that drive.