Some questions for the Enlightened

[StephenK]

1. When you look at an object, then close your eyes, do you have a sense that the object is still there?
2. When you look at an object, where do you feel yourself to be in relation to it? Is there a sense of there being a 'center' to your experience, or is 'everything' the center?
3. Do you believe your awakened state could be altered if a disease of the mind were to occur (dementia, brain-damage etc.)?
4. Do you still suffer, and what is the nature of that suffering?
5. What is love?

[Ether]

@Shanmugamyour time to shine :)

 

 

[Saumaya]

48 minutes ago, StephenK said:

1. When you look at an object, then close your eyes, do you have a sense that the object is still there?
2. When you look at an object, where do you feel yourself to be in relation to it? Is there a sense of there being a 'center' to your experience, or is 'everything' the center?
3. Do you believe your awakened state could be altered if a disease of the mind were to occur (dementia, brain-damage etc.)?
4. Do you still suffer, and what is the nature of that suffering?
5. What is love?

1. No, object is not there, I can only speculate that the object is there based on my memories. Sense of time, space and objects is gone. Everything is viewed as AS itself

2.Nothing, no object is related to me because there is no me. "Everything" is the centre which cannot be disturbed

3.Awakened state cannot be altered because awakened state is the embodiment of truth realisation. Whatever is false never existed. Certainly mind and body can be altered if some disease crops up but not enlightenment

4.No psychological suffering. Everything is at peace

5.Two kinds of love:

Agape: Love for everything as it is

Devotion: Abandoning oneself and completely surrendering to the object of love

Hope this helps 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Saumaya

[Shanmugam]

Just now, Ether said:

@Shanmugamyour time to shine

 

 

Such questions have been repeatedly asked in this forum. Words cannot really convey the experience of non-dual reality. Intellectually wondering how enlightenment feels like is not going to help.. :) I have conveyed many things already as much as possible.  I will bookmark some of the important threads soon. To be honest, what it feels like now is something that I could never imagine when I was seeking, even though I came across different kinds of explanation by different people. That is why I am saying it is totally fruitless.

[StephenK]

 

@Saumaya Thanks. I will reflect on the answers you gave.

@Shanmugam Without the words of others (written or spoken), would you have reached enlightenment? Was there no fruit born from the words of others for you?

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Such questions have been repeatedly asked in this forum. Words cannot really convey the experience of non-dual reality. Intellectually wondering how enlightenment feels like is not going to help.. :) I have conveyed many things already as much as possible.  I will bookmark some of the important threads soon. To be honest, what it feels like now is something that I could never imagine when I was seeking, even though I came across different kinds of explanation by different people. That is why I am saying it is totally fruitless.

It is usefull for one thing.

When you aren't having a real enlightenment some people tend to go overboard thinking they have.

Those answers kind of serve as a reminder to not being too cocky, and actually wasting time thinking they got it, when they don't.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Shin

[Ether]

@Shin My girlfriend looked at my pants

She could say that im cocky

 

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Girzo]

I don't think of myself as Enlightened at all, but your questions are interesting to answer.

29 minutes ago, StephenK said:

1. When you look at an object, then close your eyes, do you have a sense that the object is still there?
2. When you look at an object, where do you feel yourself to be in relation to it? Is there a sense of there being a 'center' to your experience, or is 'everything' the center?
3. Do you believe your awakened state could be altered if a disease of the mind were to occur (dementia, brain-damage etc.)?
4. Do you still suffer, and what is the nature of that suffering?
5. What is love?

1. Yes or no, depends on how you look at it. From one angle everything is there, from another - nothing exists. You don't need to be Enlightened to notice where phenomena go and from where they come. It's like a separate insight that can be grasped, I think I've grasped it.
2. No center, no left, no right - no up, no down. There's a perception of 3-dimensional space, but it's located nowhere.
3. It wouldn't affect the Absolute. It would affect how everyday phenomena looks like, but in the end it doesn't matter at all, since you have never existed and never will. Quite literally. Enlightment doesn't protect from brain damage, if that's what you asking for.
4. ---
5. I would like to know that one! 

[Saumaya]

5 minutes ago, StephenK said:

 Without the words of others (written or spoken), would you have reached enlightenment? Was there no fruit born from the words of others for you?

Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help. -Bodhidharma
 

[Ether]

1 minute ago, Saumaya said:

Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help. -Bodhidharma
 

Hey, Hey, we dont acutally know the future

[Shanmugam]

Just now, StephenK said:

 

@Saumaya Thanks. I will reflect on the answers you gave.

@Shanmugam Without the words of others (written or spoken), would you have reached enlightenment? Was there no fruit born from the words of others for you?

No.. but path and practices are different from wondering how enlightenment feels like..  I still have explained as much as possible regarding many things.. I will bookmark some threads soon so that you can refer to them.. 

Anyway, the answer to the first two questions you asked is really not that important and not that complicated as well. Don't overcomplicate about it too much. It is very simple.. 

1.The object exists only as a mental representation in your mind.. You see something, and you are conscious of what you have seen,  that experience is in your memory; if you think about that memory, then you are just looking at a mental representation of that object. Thats it...

2. What is this 'I'that you are talking about? That is what we are trying to see here... When the false self is lost, what is left is the true self. And that is all there is..

3.  Awakening is your true nature.. When you are living in duality, that's when it is altered. And enlightenment is permanent. When you are realized, you will see it yourself..

4.  No psychological suffering.. 

5. I would define love as your true nature.. when the sense of separation is dissolved, there is acceptance and forgiveness..

[Shanmugam]

@StephenK Also go through the following two articles.. They are very detailed:

https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/what-is-spiritual-enlightenment/

https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/12/20/is-spiritual-enlightenment-known-or-experienced/

[Shanmugam]

@StephenK Go through the whole conversation in the following thread. Many things have been discussed there:

 

[StephenK]

@Girzo Thank you for your answers. 

@Shanmugam Thanks for the links and answers. Looks like I've got some reading to do 

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, StephenK said:

1. When you look at an object, then close your eyes, do you have a sense that the object is still there?
2. When you look at an object, where do you feel yourself to be in relation to it? Is there a sense of there being a 'center' to your experience, or is 'everything' the center?
3. Do you believe your awakened state could be altered if a disease of the mind were to occur (dementia, brain-damage etc.)?
4. Do you still suffer, and what is the nature of that suffering?
5. What is love?

1.  No.  It’s a belief not what is perceived.

2.  I feel like I am a permanent pillar of awareness  and reality is kind of happening all around me.  Beliefs about this are Maya.  Being it is already enough.  And being mesmerized by it.  It all moves without a mover.

3.  No.  You can’t lose awareness once you get it.

4.  Yes.  Because I realize there’s no control, all I can do is accept reality.  Reality is not always the most pleasant.  But I find myself at peace with it most of the time.

5.  Love is acceptance of reality and realizing you don’t have any control over it.  

Edited February 24, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[eputkonen]

StephenK,

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When you look at an object, then close your eyes, do you have a sense that the object is still there?

No.  I sense being in formlessness...not form...when my eyes are closed.

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When you look at an object, where do you feel yourself to be in relation to it? Is there a sense of there being a 'center' to your experience, or is 'everything' the center?

There is a center to the experience because most of the sense are on the head of the body...and we imagine ourselves somewhere behind or in the center of the senses.  The senses and brain interpreting the data from the senses create an 'experiential center'.  However, I don't feel myself to be in the middle of that experiential center - I am not located in the mind or brain or experiential center.  I feel myself to be everywhere...but there is a recognition of the experiential center.  There is no division between the object, this body, and so no location of relation.  There is no other or outside.

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Do you believe your awakened state could be altered if a disease of the mind were to occur (dementia, brain-damage etc.)?

Don't know.  I don't have a belief either way.

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Do you still suffer, and what is the nature of that suffering?

No, haven't really suffered since enlightenment happening in 2005.  Ever content.

The nature of suffering is that due to thoughts, beliefs, concepts, etc. we make ourselves miserable.  Suffering is self-inflicted.  Suffering occurs through ignorance and illusions of the mind...and suffering only happens to a "me".  Dispel ignorance and illusion...particularly the idea of a "me"...and suffering ceases.  Said simply...no "me", no suffering.  Pain continues to happen because the nerves of the body still function.  Suffering is a figment of imagination.

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What is love?

Love is not attachment or craving. 

Love is seeing, accepting, and caring.  Trust and appreciation are also aspects of love.

[Saumaya]

2 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

@StephenK Go through the whole conversation in the following thread. Many things have been discussed there:

 

Unfortunately I could have added more points but I cant edit any longer

[StephenK]

@Joseph Maynor @eputkonen Thanks for your answers.

[Ether]

@Saumaya hi how r u

[Saumaya]

@Ether Good man, playing La Noire, u?