what is the difference between a thought and an insight?

[Patang]

the similarity between them is that you do not know where they both came from. in one instant they both appeared out of nowhere.

the difference between them is that thoughts are a distinct process, gradually constructed and matured into an idea. the process is accompanied by internal questions and answers that guide the way, like a flowchart. the thinker believes that the idea is true, but he does not know it, and he must verify it against the perceived reality. insight on the other hand is not a process, it is a realization obtained at once. there are no questions or answers, no examination is made to validate the concept and it is accepted indisputably as correct.

[Joseph Maynor]

What is the difference?  Consult your experience.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

I don’t know if this will make sense to another but this is how I distinguish the two 

 

Fragmentary/incomplete action 

 THOUGHT.....Reponse of memory then images/thoughts then action according to thought.

3 step process of action 

 

Whole/complete action 

INSIGHT/PERCEPTION..... insight and action act simultaneously. 

1 step holistic action 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Monkey-man]

can we be sure that insights are true ?

[Patang]

@Joseph Maynor it's a bit tricky, you see, an idea is a concept developed in a process. however, this topic is an insight, emerged in one glance. nowadays, i'm not looking for ideas, i don't think about concepts, i'm just looking at what is in front of me.

@Faceless yes i can accept that, it's like the difference between sawing and cutting.

@Monkey-man It is not about being sure of the correctness of an insight, it's about knowing that it's correct. if you're not sure then it's not an insight.

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, Patang said:

i'm just looking at what is in front of me.

‘What is’ is a complete action and whole. An act of perception/insight 

‘truth’ in essence 

[Patang]

15 minutes ago, Faceless said:

‘truth’ in essence 

yes, what i'm looking at, in it's core, is truth. i'm truth and so are you. the truth is what there is, and what is around it, is merely an illusion. the truth in nothing.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Patang

[Faceless]

@Patang??

Edited February 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Patang]

@Faceless ?? live long and prosper

[Neo]

I don't get many insights, but if I explain how one recently happened to me. it might be a good example. I had been doing some self enquiry, and wasn't really sure about any results, I finished and carried on with my work. Then suddenly as I was working, thinking something else, something hit me like a bolt out of the blue and the hairs on my neck stood on end, and I knew, "it's not possible that "I" am a personality made of cumulative stored experiences, because this is simply nonsensical and not possible". And the traction with the thought is huge and undeniable. The statement itself doesn't provide much in way of an explanation, but nonetheless is a fact I can't deny.

[Patang]

@Neo if there is no question about it what so ever, and nothing can change it, then it is an insight. you see, when something is a belief, it is always being challenged deep deep inside.

[tsuki]

From my experience, Insight is thought-driven. Let me clarify:

Thought is a meaningful "snapshot" of reality. Meaningful in a sense that it is taken seriously. It is not simply an "idea" to be held that may or may not be true. Thoughts are something to be taken AS reality itself. It is a prosthesis, or a substitute for what is real. Thoughts construct themselves to make reality simpler than what it is and to protect one from its perceived dangers.

Insight is an occurrence when different thoughts are combined and cancel each other out, leaving one with a feeling that reality is larger and much more nuanced than one has previously thought. It is not a deliberate action, but rather an occurrence. One is not driving the insights. Insights occur when one is ready to accept them. They form as one matures and show one's own ignorance in a very loving way. Wisdom is made of insights that show reality for what it is.

In a sense, insights and thoughts are two sides of the same coin.

Edited February 24, 2018 by tsuki

[tsuki]

6 minutes ago, tsuki said:

From my experience, Insight is thought-driven.

Don't let this sentence misguide you. Insight is no less and no more than a thought.
In the same sense thought is insight-driven. 

Once an insight has occurred, one is more resistant to silly ideas taken from others and from the society and is free to construct original, more holistic thoughts. Thoughts that include more and more reality and do not see perspectives as good or bad. The more insights one experienced, the more he is willing to abandon his models of reality once it is apparent that they no longer work.

Feelings are a great tool for evaluating thought systems. Negative emotions occur when reality does not conform to one's model. One may try to change reality to conform it, or change the models to make better predictions. When enough insights had occurred, one is more willing to change himself than dictate dogmas for others.

[Patang]

@tsuki as i see it, thoughts are merely an ego/mind interpretations to the perceived reality, while insights are being received from the nature of reality itself. it's what lays behind the illusion itself.

[tsuki]

14 minutes ago, Patang said:

@tsuki as i see it, thoughts are merely an ego/mind interpretations to the perceived reality, while insights are being received from the nature of reality itself. it's what lays behind the illusion itself.

So, to you they are some sort of divine revelation? The reality has spoken thing?
How do you differentiate that from another layer of illusion? By the mere fact that you are absolutely sure of their correctness? The mystical aspect?
Aren't thoughts like that too? Aren't you absolutely sure that you are understanding what I'm saying and not seeing some projection of your own understanding right now? Is that understanding a thought or an insight?
 

[Neo]

Quote

The reality has spoken thing?

I don't know, but apparently even the "shrooms" have a spoken voice. Even if that be some other level of thought conjoured up to be an alien voice, now friggin deep does that go? - Presumable that there are other levels of human experience that translate up through layers of consciousness as language?

Edited February 24, 2018 by Neo

[Patang]

@tsuki nothing is divine about reality, and it has nothing to say about anything. i know where thoughts/feelings come from (internal) and where insights come from (external). thoughts produce beliefs, insights produce realizations. there are layers upon layers of illusions, so to speak, and i refer to the one closest to our existence as human beings. i try to be precise in what i say, but under the limitations of language and of myself, i sometimes find it difficult to do so nowadays.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Patang

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

I don't know, but apparently even the "shrooms" have a spoken voice. Even if that be some other level of thought conjoured up to be an alien voice, now friggin deep does that go? - Presumable that there are other levels of human experience that translate up through layers of consciousness as language?

@Neo It has been a major revelation to me that thoughts are not limited to "the Voice" that narrates your life. I'm a bilingual person and I sometimes catch myself gluing together sentences from two different languages. Sometimes I think in English, sometimes in Polish. In my psyche reside different people that I converse with and come up with different sorts of concepts. This is a form of processing of experience and I think that it's a very important mechanism of my creativity. A major growth has occurred a few years back once I realized that their responses are my own. Ever caught yourself imagining an argument with your spouse? Yeah, try winning that argument when you know exactly what to say to make yourself angry, LOL.

These whole personas in your psyche are what real people are made of as you meet them in the "physical" world. Did you ever wonder why other people misunderstand you? They have a model of you in their head and treat your words as something to fit into their model of you. You do that as well! This is what Ego is made of. Self-referential stories that fulfill themselves. Once you are angry at somebody, it is difficult to see their words as loving, as the model became "scary" or "annoying" and you annoy yourself with it. Even if they literally say "I love you", you may see it as sarcastic or said angrily. That they didn't REALLY mean it.

There are different kinds of thoughts apart from language. That catchy song you heard on the radio that you play to yourself in your head? Yeah, that's a thought too. I imagine composers to think in original songs and write them down.
Feelings are a form of thought that are ever-present in everyday objects or situations. Ever noticed that once you're angry, everything is irritating? That's a thought too, but it has no words content to it. "The Voice" on the other hand is very susceptible to emotions and drives all sorts of different narrations depending on the emotional content of the psyche. Even everyday objects are susceptible to emotions. A plate may become a thing to be thrown once you get angry enough. 

How the Voice is connected with feelings is a whole different story, as they are interconnected both ways and I don't want to dwell on that for too long.

1 hour ago, Patang said:

@tsuki nothing is divine about reality, and it has nothing to say about anything. i know where thoughts/feelings come from (internal) and where insights come from (external). thoughts produce beliefs, insights produce realizations. there are layers upon layers of illusions, so to speak, and i refer to the one closest to our existence as human beings. i try to be precise in what i say, but under the limitations of language and of myself, i sometimes find it difficult to do so nowadays.

@Patang I may be getting ahead of myself again, but let me tell you a secret: there is no external and internal. Everything can be viewed from two different perspectives that cancel each other out. Everything is a huge process that has no beginning and end. This is the very nature of thought - to say that a part of cycle is the beginning, or an end.

There also seems to be a shift in how you communicate ever since you posted your "done" thread. I like that, it seems more nuanced and open. Good job!

Edited February 24, 2018 by tsuki

[Patang]

58 minutes ago, Patang said:

@tsuki nothing is divine about reality, and it has nothing to say about anything. i know where thoughts/feelings come from (internal) and where insights come from (external). thoughts produce beliefs, insights produce realizations. there are layers upon layers of illusions, so to speak, and i refer to the one closest to our existence as human beings. i try to be precise in what i say, but under the limitations of language and of myself, i sometimes find it difficult to do so nowadays.

 

26 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Patang I may be getting ahead of myself again, but let me tell you a secret: there is no external and internal. Everything can be viewed from two different perspectives that cancel each other out. Everything is a huge process that has no beginning and end. This is the very nature of thought - to say that a part of cycle is the beginning, or an end.

i only referred to the one closest to our existence as human beings, not to all the rest of the illusions. this is how communication among humans is made. but you know that, don't you 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Patang

[tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Patang said:

i try to be precise in what i say, but under the limitations of language and of myself, i sometimes find it difficult to do so nowadays.

That is a difficult thing indeed. We sometimes even look back at our posts and see for ourselves that they didn't come off as we wanted them to . If I can't communicate what I think to myself, how am I supposed to communicate it to others? Haha

5 minutes ago, Patang said:

i only referred to the one closest to our existence as human beings, not to all the rest of the illusions.

What I came to realize is that there may be no end to illusions as we see no difference between them and reality. It may very well be what reality is made of. Ourselves! Deceiving ourselves that we are not making them up!