It Goes Deeper Than You Might Think...

[TheEnlightenedWon]

I see people posting as if they know they are Enlightened. How do you know?

When I asked the highest master I've ever known if he was Enlightened, he replied "I don't know".

Enlightened ones:

When you were just a baby Ego, you likely knew nothing of a deeper level of consciousness. It was only through hearing about such states that you were even able to begin practicing. So, being at the consciousness level that you are at now, how do you know there is nothing deeper?

Some "Enlightened" people on this forum act as if all action ceases after Enlightenment. Like you're just supposed to sit down and be content where you are forever. Sure, nothing wrong with that...

But what's wrong with walking around and being content with further exploration where you are forever? There is so much to do, learn, see, experience. This does not cease after Enlightenment, contrary to what some false gurus might say.

Knowing everything through direct experience is not the same as knowing about everything. It can be fun to learn about things.

Being at peace doesn't mean you can't tinker with the mind to improve worldly performance much like a car hobbyist tinkers with an engine of a car to make it go faster. It can be FUN to go faster. It can be FUN to perform "well" in worldly functions, whatever that means for you!

"Enlightened" people will say "But if you accept everything and let it be, blah blah blah... But there is no self do do these things blah blah... No free will"...

This IS the paradox! What, your Enlightened mind breaks with a simple paradox of an Enlightened person making some change or improving some thing in the world? Stop thinking so much you big dummies.

The highest master I have ever met enjoys video games, thrift shopping, eats chik fil-a like 5 times a week, has gotten his **** sucked by like 800+ girls, and likes to skydive. This shit is FUUNNNNNNNNNN. Get Enlightened, get your **** sucked, and lets all have a good time.

[Saumaya]

@TheEnlightenedWon" I don't know " is also an appropriate response as enlightenment is not an achievement but clearly a shift takes place so there is such thing as enlightenment. Its a paradox. Again "you" don't become enlightened, enlightenment becomes enlightened.

I haven't seen anyone here say all action ceases after enlightenment on this forum

[TheEnlightenedWon]

^^ OH, and he also made like $53,000 in the past three months. Forgot to mention that.

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, TheEnlightenedWon said:

^^ OH, and he also made like $53,000 in the past three months. Forgot to mention that.

Your point?

[TheEnlightenedWon]

That worldly activity - and in fact activities that could be perceived externally as low-consciousness such as having plenty of sex with multiple partners, eating fast food 5 days a week, or earning lots of money (perhaps through illicit means) - are not necessarily in conflict with Enlightenment.

Some on this forum seem to discourage continued development. They don't seem to understand that doing is a form of being.

For instance, take a look at these responses to a thread I posted... My question was about continuing development of the mind after Enlightenment:

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Just let go and let reality do whatever it does.  You have no control and you never had any.  Don’t plan too much.  Just sit back and watch.

 

Quote

Yes, this is correct. We have no control about our thoughts.

My question was about action and I got responses about inaction. Interesting, no?

 

 

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, TheEnlightenedWon said:

That worldly activity - and in fact activities that could be perceived externally as low-consciousness such as having plenty of sex with multiple partners, eating fast food 5 days a week, or earning lots of money (perhaps through illicit means) - are not necessarily in conflict with Enlightenment.

Some on this forum seem to discourage continued development. They don't seem to understand that doing is a form of being.

For instance, take a look at these responses to a thread I posted... My question was about continuing development of the mind after Enlightenment:

 

My question was about action and I got responses about inaction. Interesting, no?

 

 

Haha that must be joseph maynor probably, he s on his own trip usually. It all depends on where action is coming from, doing without being is low consciousness. If you live from being, then its no problem. Usually such desires falls off after "enlightenment" because they are kind of shallow. But hey! Do whatever you want is the rule, it has nothing to do with enlightenment 

[Monkey-man]

Agree, enlightenment is about state of being but it doesn't make you to know what life is about, whether it has purpose or not. It's spiritual ego's talks. And such denial is simpy materialist paradigm rediscovered.

[Joseph Maynor]

You're enlightened when you realize (1) you're not in control over reality, and (2) you realize all your job is is to be that which never changes.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Shanmugam]

 

 

 

@TheEnlightenedWon What makes one do an action? There is a topic called 'Motivation' in Psychology, which talks about this. There are many things which motivate us to do things; for example, there are biological drives like food, sex, and sleep; there is a motivation to seek an optimal arousal level, and many other things..

 

Enlightenment is nothing but the end of seeking (the seeking to end the psychological sense of lack); Right now, in my experience the psychological sense of lack is absent; the sense of a separate self is absent; there are wholeness, peace and complete freedom. But there is still action and growth; It continues without a sense of doer-ship. But it doesn't mean I am on autopilot either! There is a choice each and every moment. 

So, I would say that my actions are exactly the same as before; but they are done out of intrinsic motivation. It means doing something in the sheer joy of doing it. 

But this is a tricky topic. Because a person who is still living in the separation, with the sense of doer-ship and duality, cannot exactly imagine this. He is somehow going to assume that duality is still there after enlightenment. 

I can put it this way. I can no longer see life as a journey from point A to Point B. It has become very spontaneous. So there is a major 'binary' difference between enlightenment and duality. Enlightenment is pretty much like a rebirth! 

[Saumaya]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You're enlightened when you realize (1) you're not in control over reality, and (2) you realize all your job is is to be that which never changes.

Its true that no one has control, but its you who is taking the decisions. Its a paradox. You'll realise it later when your awakening has sunk in deeper.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Saumaya

[Joseph Maynor]

50 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

 

 

 

@TheEnlightenedWon What makes one do an action? There is a topic called 'Motivation' in Psychology, which talks about this. There are many things which motivate us to do things; for example, there are biological drives like food, sex, and sleep; there is a motivation to seek an optimal arousal level, and many other things..

 

Enlightenment is nothing but the end of seeking (the seeking to end the psychological sense of lack); Right now, in my experience the psychological sense of lack is absent; the sense of a separate self is absent; there are wholeness, peace and complete freedom. But there is still action and growth; It continues without a sense of doer-ship. But it doesn't mean I am on autopilot either! There is a choice each and every moment. 

So, I would say that my actions are exactly the same as before; but they are done out of intrinsic motivation. It means doing something in the sheer joy of doing it. 

But this is a tricky topic. Because a person who is still living in the separation, with the sense of doer-ship and duality, cannot exactly imagine this. He is somehow going to assume that duality is still there after enlightenment. 

I can put it this way. I can no longer see life as a journey from point A to Point B. It has become very spontaneous. So there is a major 'binary' difference between enlightenment and duality. Enlightenment is pretty much like a rebirth! 

You believe you are choosing eh?

[Shanmugam]

@Joseph Maynor I don't believe in anything.. 

As, @Saumaya said, there is a  paradox here... In reality, there is really no free will but it appears to be. There is a choice each and every moment. But after enlightenment, (in my experience) the choosing happens spontaneously without the sense of a chooser.

 

 

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@Joseph Maynor I don't believe in anything.. 

As, @Saumaya said, there is a  paradox here... In reality, there is really no free will but it appears to be. There is a choice each and every moment. But after enlightenment, (in my experience) the choosing happens spontaneously without the sense of a chooser.

 

 

He wont get it, he s still a newcomer. Id answer the same 2years back, just after when I was done.

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

He wont get it, he s still a newcomer. Id answer the same 2years back, just after when I was done.

It's clear to me that there is no control.  Just surrender to being it.  The idea there is a choice or control is Egoic.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Shanmugam]

@Joseph Maynor You understand the paradox right?

When I say there is a choice every moment, I mean that I am not a zombie..  There is still an ability to make decisions. But, in reality, those decisions are not mine! 

Let me put it this way. Is there really something called artificial? No! Man himself is a part of nature. Whatever a man does is an expression of the reality itself. But the man things that they are his own actions. We use the word 'artificial' for practical purposes, but there is nothing artificial at all, including the choices we make..

Language can be very tricky...

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, Shanmugam said:

@Joseph Maynor You understand the paradox right?

When I say there is a choice every moment, I mean that I am not a zombie..  There is still an ability to make decisions. But, in reality, those decisions are not mine! 

Let me put it this way. Is there really something called artificial? No! Man himself is a part of nature. Whatever a man does is an expression of the reality itself. But the man things that they are his own actions. We use the word 'artificial' for practical purposes, but there is nothing artificial at all, including the choices we make..

Language can be very tricky...

Yh, I have heard lot of teachers say it  like there is only a dead body walking after enlightenment, thats misleading to an extent.

[Joseph Maynor]

38 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@Joseph Maynor You understand the paradox right?

When I say there is a choice every moment, I mean that I am not a zombie..  There is still an ability to make decisions. But, in reality, those decisions are not mine! 

Let me put it this way. Is there really something called artificial? No! Man himself is a part of nature. Whatever a man does is an expression of the reality itself. But the man things that they are his own actions. We use the word 'artificial' for practical purposes, but there is nothing artificial at all, including the choices we make..

Language can be very tricky...

Language might be paradoxical, but reality is not.

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Language might be paradoxical, but reality is not.

What reality?

[Joseph Maynor]

7 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

What reality?

What is pre-conceptually.  The unchanging watcher of sense content.  That unchanging observer is what reality is.  This is the Soul or Awareness or Atman or Brahman or Emptiness or the Void.  Maya is our set of beliefs about reality, and assuming that those beliefs are true. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Saumaya]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Language might be paradoxical, but reality is not.

Your point?