Discussion : Being Vegan - VS - not Being Vegan

[Star Net]

Hi

@Outer   @Michael569    @sgn   @alyra   @BjarkeT @Serotoninluv @Slade   @Lorcan

On 26.02.2018 at 1:49 PM, Outer said:

Cool to see people from Iraq here

Cool To See You ..

On 26.02.2018 at 1:49 PM, Outer said:

If you have a wife she can buy and cook for you.

No,I am not married .

On 26.02.2018 at 1:49 PM, Outer said:

How are beans there? Do you eat hummus?

They are cool , Actually I ate hummus yesterday evening ,

On 26.02.2018 at 1:49 PM, Outer said:

You need to supplement Vitamin B12, as it's not in plant foods. Even meat typically don't have it unless the cows, for example, is given supplement.

Vitamin B12 supplement - required

You can also buy a multivitamin, I bet in Iraq it's probably easier to find than B12 supplement. It contains B12.

Yes, I think it is easy to find supplements for B12, But I do not like Chemical supplements has been manufactured by companies and sold by pharmacies, Actually I do not like to go to the Pharmacies,

I prefer Natural resources, And I am Searching and asking about them.

On 26.02.2018 at 3:45 PM, Michael569 said:

You are unlikely to find a support there

No, I think I am going to find support, There are very good doctors in Iraq ...

On 26.02.2018 at 8:46 PM, alyra said:

In order to create we must destroy. This is the necessary nature of diversity. we must survive by eating - we must grow by destroying. there is no creation without destruction.

There are differences between Destroying and reshaping, and I think if there is a chance for Us to reshape anything in nature in order to have some benefits it will be better than destroying.

On 27.02.2018 at 0:11 AM, Dragallur said:

animals feel pain while rocks and plants don't

You are Right.

On 27.02.2018 at 1:55 AM, Slade said:

A Venus fly trap can feel fly so what makes you think plants can’t feel more than that. 

 

We as humans, Our brains receive some kinds of signals from the nervus system, then the brain explains these signals as pain for Us, then We feel pain, This video does not say that the plants have the same mechanism or the plants feels pain.

 

On 27.02.2018 at 6:21 PM, ppfeiff said:

Can you survive on cooked foods? Sure. Is it optimal? Probably not, because it breaks down the fiber and destroys some nutrients in the process

I have a question,

I can eat raw apple, Orange, Banana ....etc but the question is How can I eat some thing like white beans without cooking it ?

do You know a method ?

On 28.02.2018 at 1:33 AM, ppfeiff said:

A favorite recipe:

Raw Vegan Zoodle Pasta

Thanks for the recipe, I am not so good when it comes to recipes, I am learning step by step, Thanks again .

 

 

[Star Net]

Bad News for Meat eaters and animal products consumers,

No animals on Mars ...

[Max_V]

@Lorcan There's a lot of toxins in meat and fish both. 

Also, if you want to look at it from another perspective, you are eating animals and causing suffering while there is no particular reason since man can strive and actually feel much better on a plant based diet.

If you want more information on this you should watch the documentaries: 'What the health', and 'Forks over knives'. Both of these take a health point of view.

[Monkey-man]

Why Dairy is bad? I always thought that milk and kefir are the most healthy things

[ppfeiff]

@Monkey-man You have been mis-educated my friend. Most of us have had to unwire this maniupulative programming.

Think about it: who told you dairy was good for you? The same people who have a horse in the race? In other words,  the same people who sold it to you?

Dairy is NOT good for you, nor are human beings designed to consume milk from other animals. Human beings are the only living creatures who voluntarily do this today.

Watch Leo’s video on the topic:

 

[Moreira]

In my experience, I practice lot of sport and go to the gym, I cannot live with a exclusive vegan diet. because I cannot reach the needed amount of nutrients I need only by plants. For example to meet the same amount of protein of a steak or turkey you have to eat 1 entire big broccoli, or a jar of lentins and this makes me the entire day in the WC or farting.... somehow my guts arent used to eat so much fiber

[sgn]

12 minutes ago, Moreira said:

In my experience, I practice lot of sport and go to the gym, I cannot live with a exclusive vegan diet. because I cannot reach the needed amount of nutrients I need only by plants. For example to meet the same amount of protein of a steak or turkey you have to eat 1 entire big broccoli, or a jar of lentins and this makes me the entire day in the WC or farting.... somehow my guts arent used to eat so much fiber

Why do you mention broccoli? Lol. I hear people do this quite a lot for some reason. 

If we take 100g dry red lentils for example it's around 24g protein.
100g of dry black beans = 22g protein.
Tofu = 18g.
Dry soybeans = 34g.

Your gut can get used to eat more fiber if you build it up. Most people don't reach RDI I think. And you can go way beyond that.
I eat quite a lot and I don't have a problem. I cured my IBS since I went vegan. My shits have reached perfection.
Also depends on how well you rince and cook the beans/lentils etc to reduce gas.
There's vegan protein powder also.

[Dragallur]

@ppfeiff Actually Leo's video is not the best share ever for the reason's why not to eat something since Leo did not cite a single source.

[ppfeiff]

@Dragallur I wasn't sharing Leo's video to make a scientific argument.

Sometimes you have to meet people where they are, and tailor advice to that

E.g. If you asked the question, I'd probably include citations. Cheers.

[Scholar]

It is quite interesting, I think most opinions on this matter are formed by culture. For me it is obvious that a more sophisticated civilization, with a people that are more compassionate and reasonable, will deem the act of animal exploitation as an unnecessary act of violence, quite similar to that of the killing of jews by the Nazis. I think Leonardo Da Vinci was absolutely right with his estimation:

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men.”

The fact that this is not yet the case is very telling of the condition of our civilization. 

To me it does not really feel like veganism is a personal choice, for me it is like not raping another human being, or not chopping babies into pieces. I find it funny that there is a word that describes beings that do not inflict excruciating suffering onto others unnecessarily. Usually we stigmatize the other way around. What is someone called who does not murder people for pleasure and self interest? I only know of sadists, psychopaths, murderers. Are we walking around and pointing fingers at people who are "empaths", who are not willing to fall into one of the first traps of the egoic mind?

What is most important to me is not the benefits of veganism, or whether or not it is right or wrong. What is important to me is what I see when I picture myself going back to consuming meat, dairy or eggs. When I picture it, I see someone who is weak. I see someone who is too selfish to take the difficult path. I see a being that is so egoic it is willing to cause unimaginable suffering to others just for it's own benefit. I see a being that was seduced by the devil within, by the sad creature that is afraid of death and suffering, so much so that it is willing to cause it in thousand-fold to other versions of itself. I see the pathetic excuse of a human being, one that exploits for no other reason but comfort. I see in that being everything that I deem undesirable, for me, the the ones I love, and the rest of the world. I see a being that is hindering the progression of mankind and nature. I see an evolutionary mistake that without question will be eradicated, whether in this generation, in the next, or in the late future.

I cannot imagine that such a being could ever attain the truths that I am set out to attain. I cannot imagine such a being to be truly joyous. I cannot imagine it on the path of true self-actualization. I cannot imagine it free of suffering.

 

I cannot play the game of life that way, I guess it is the will of the absolute, or my free choice, if there is any difference. The benefits of "veganism"? It is not murdering, torturing and enslaving other beings. It is reduction of suffering by the greatest degree that a human being is probably capable of in this day and age. It is contributing to the future of earth, to elevate us to a new level, to be one of the pioneers of compassion and reason. It is in my humble opinion an integral part of becoming self-actualized, whether some of our mentors can recognize that or not. This decision should not be difficult whatsoever for a even remotely developed human being, and if we look back at history, it truly never was.

[sgn]

@Scholar I agree fully 

[ppfeiff]

@Lorcan

On 3/3/2018 at 10:43 AM, Lorcan said:

What is the point of going full vegan? 

What is wrong with eating just 50g of tuna a day and eat the rest vegetables.

That way you get the benefits from haven eaten meat. Is it not so?

 

 

[h inandout]

@Outer Where is the research for this?  I have a hard time believing it, but I'm not always right...

[sgn]

@Outer You eat nutritional yeast?

[Star Net]

Hi @Outer

On 05.03.2018 at 11:01 AM, Outer said:

If you don't want to eat supplements, "chemicals", then sorry you have to eat meat like beef to stay healthy

 

No, I am not going to eat beef, Maybe I will eat supplements if I will need to, but I will keep searching about finding a sources for B12 and How can I prepare B12 in one way or another,

Actually I found one ( Yeast ) it has small amount of B12 about 0,1 µg per 100gram actually it contain good amount of protein too about 40g per 100 gram,

Take a look

https://www.google.iq/search?dcr=0&ei=M7-eWp2SNY30gQbcqp3QBw&q=Vitamin+B12+in+Yeast&oq=Vitamin+B12+in+Yeast&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i19k1l2j0i22i30i19k1l5j0i22i10i30i19k1j0i22i30i19k1.4990.19781.0.20157.27.26.0.1.1.0.373.4593.2-17j2.19.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..8.19.4370...0j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i22i30k1.0.T1B6Uya6Pn8

and I found that the Daily need for vitamin B12 for adult male over 14 years old is about 2.4 mcg

Take a look

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

I think You mentioned a way to consume yeast here

7 hours ago, Outer said:

I have it but I don't eat it. If I used it it was mostly as a cheese-like alternative. It's also called "Nooch". It has a good taste and texture in that sense.

If you really want to make it a cheese alternative, then blend nooch with cashews, salt, garlic powder and MSG. (monosodium glutamate, which is a salt form of glutamate, which is the umami taste found in tomatoes, parmesan cheese etc)

 

On 05.03.2018 at 11:03 AM, Outer said:

If blood tests for B12 in Iraq is cheap then you can take those every now and then

I think it is very cheap in Iraq, because I saw an ad in the street ( checking Your whole body for like about 50$ or 60$ as I remember )

I think people can do blood test even for free or very little amount of cost like 4$ in Iraqi public hospitals that belong to the government, but I think they have to have a problem or some kind of disease in order for them to have that option.

 

I will keep searching about the topic of vitamin B12, and by the way I think there is a good Business and investment opportunity here, because there are millions of vegans around the globe and most if not all of them are willing to consume a natural source of vitamin B12 over supplements.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Star Net

[Star Net]

I found good sources for protein and calories for vegan

 

 

for protein

Lentils : 9 g of protein per 100 gram of lentils

Chickpeas : 19 g of protein per 100 gram of chickpeas

Peas : 5 g of protein per 100 gram of peas

White beans : 6 g of protein per 100 gram of White beans

 

 

for calories

Pistachio : 562,1 kcal of calories per 100 gram of pistachio

almond : 575,5 kcal of calories per 100 gram of almond

Walnut : 654,4 kcal of calories per 100 gram of walnut

 

[sgn]

@Star Net Some of this is cooked weight and some dry?

[sgn]

23 minutes ago, LaminMP01 said:

The side affects of becoming a vegan to me is very alarming. It is obvious that some people will react negatively as others won't, so I believe that it is important to get tested by a doctor to see if their are any potential dangers to this type of diet. I believe that consumption of meat should be reduced, that's is why i'm very invested in the idea of going vegan 5 days then eating animal products 2 days. I believe that the animal industry will be more acclimatised to the trends in meat consumption and safely lower the vast numbers livestock to ensure the survival of their companies. This can lead to much more ethical practices within the animal industry as due to the much manageable numbers they can implement ethical practices with losing profit.

There is no side effects if you do it right.

Ok reducing is good. But why animal products 2 days a week?

What do you need from it?

And slaughtering animals will never be ethical. Ethical rape, enslavement and murder?
But I get what you mean. It's better the practices becomes less unethical. At best stopped entirely.

28 minutes ago, LaminMP01 said:

However, I disagree with veganism because if there is a movement big enough to stop the animal farming industry completely, I want to know what will happen to the millions of animals kept in captivity. They can't be let into the wild because humans have bred these animals for thousands of years with characteristics that would guarantee an imbalance of natural ecosystems against the survival of the animal. This will lead to more suffering than I believe vegans would expect because overpopulation of species will lead to the starvation and extinction of many predator and prey animals. I believe that their will be a few groups that will push for humans to animals such as pigs as pets apart from that many animals will be killed in a mass killings. I assume due to the vast numbers of some factory farms the methods of execution will be unethical. 

 

[Star Net]

Hi @sgn

No, They are all dry weights ...

[Clown]

I'm kinda of a semi-vegetarian. I guess there's a fancy name for it. I eat dairy, eggs and even fish occasionally. Meats have been off my menu for a good two years. All began on one day when I was frying bacon and putting the strips on the pan and thought that this was recently a living being that probably didn't want to die. And here I am eating its flesh like it's nothing. And all the shops have their walls full of dead animals and all of it doesn't even get eaten. Some of it just gets thrown away. Disgusting.

I base my eating more on conscience that any "-ism". I know I'm not that consistent with it, but ... you know