Could Reality Be Truly Inaccessible?

[WildeChilde]

How do we know if human reason and direct mystical experiences can lead us to the Truth?  

I ask because I’ve been reading a blog lately by a philosopher named Peter Jones, and its central focus is simplifying and hopefully answering the biggest questions found in metaphysics.

He is a non-dualist, and the purpose of one of his essays is to expose the weaknesses within materialism.  His conclusion is, “All in all it seems difficult to make any kind of case for Materialism. If we do not know the facts then for us it may be true, but if it is then the universe must be miraculous, paradoxical, unreasonable and incomprehensible.”  

But what if it is?  What if reason and experience are simply not enough for finding out with certainty?

I know I’m overcomplicating things, but just hear me out. 

Say you’re standing in front of five different doors.  You’re told that behind one of these doors is a billion dollars.  If you choose the right door, then you can keep it all.  So you think about it, and after a while, you notice there is a very subtle yet fresh-looking handprint on the knob of door number three.  You choose door number three and, lo and behold, there’s the money.  

Looking back on it, you can say that your belief that the money was behind door number 3 was correct.  Your reasoning power and experience in life provided you an educated guess, but can you really say prior to even guessing you KNEW where the money was?

[Saumaya]

How do we know if human reason and direct mystical experiences can lead us to the Truth?

@WildeChilde The only way too know is to find out for yourself rather than philosophising about it.

[Leo Gura]

@WildeChilde Better question is: How do you know it can't?

How do you know anything?

What is knowledge?

[WildeChilde]

knowledge

1. facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

2. awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.

Dang, I need to brush up on some definitions .  Thank you Leo.  

[Rinne]

Lmao

[Joseph Maynor]

What is reality?

[Kserkkj]

@WildeChilde  You Really Numbed The Intellegent Mind. The Mind Is Quite A Reality. Indeed. It Isn't The Reality You Know. But It Has Red Opinions About Matters. You see that the Truth is Quite A Mint. It Can Only Be Seen In the WORD. But It Can Be Intellectured (Verb Of Using The INTELLECT).

You See That Int (Word = Mind) Cannot See Int. But We Make It Intellectualized. Polarity Is A Mind-Based Reality. It Should Not Be Accepted As Mind In The Sense Of Reality. Mind Is A Structure Of We. It Is The MINT. 

[How to be wise]

@WildeChilde wrong.

[WildeChilde]

@Kserkkj There seems to be a language barrier here Kserkkj, but I think I know where you are coming from.  I favor the non-dual/idealist approach; I've even had a few glimpses myself through self-inquiry the first time and psychedelics the second, but I have my doubts.  

Our brains were primed for survival more so than truth-seeking https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-evolutionary-argument-against-reality-20160421/

I'm just calling into question whether the tool we have is the right tool.

[Shin]

10 hours ago, Saumaya said:

 

@WildeChilde The only way too know is to find out for yourself rather than philosophising about it.

That's the most insulting thing you could say to a spiritual seeker 

[WildeChilde]

@Shin I’ll be honest; it kind of stung when I read it, but Saumaya is right.  We’ve been philosophizing for over 2500 years, and what do we have to show for it? We are just as clueless now as we were back then.

[Shin]

7 minutes ago, WildeChilde said:

@Shin I’ll be honest; it kind of stung when I read it, but Saumaya is right.  We’ve been philosophizing for over 2500 years, and what do we have to show for it? We are just as clueless now as we were back then.

I don't think so.

Look at how many spiritual teachers are alive now.

We are more open minded than ever, it isn't just a temporary event like the hippy generation this time.

Things are escalating pretty fast, and this is just the beginning.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Shin

[Forestluv]

18 hours ago, WildeChilde said:

How do we know if human reason and direct mystical experiences can lead us to the Truth?  

I ask because I’ve been reading a blog lately by a philosopher named Peter Jones, and its central focus is simplifying and hopefully answering the biggest questions found in metaphysics.

He is a non-dualist, and the purpose of one of his essays is to expose the weaknesses within materialism.  His conclusion is, “All in all it seems difficult to make any kind of case for Materialism. If we do not know the facts then for us it may be true, but if it is then the universe must be miraculous, paradoxical, unreasonable and incomprehensible.”  

But what if it is?  What if reason and experience are simply not enough for finding out with certainty?

I know I’m overcomplicating things, but just hear me out. 

Say you’re standing in front of five different doors.  You’re told that behind one of these doors is a billion dollars.  If you choose the right door, then you can keep it all.  So you think about it, and after a while, you notice there is a very subtle yet fresh-looking handprint on the knob of door number three.  You choose door number three and, lo and behold, there’s the money.  

Looking back on it, you can say that your belief that the money was behind door number 3 was correct.  Your reasoning power and experience in life provided you an educated guess, but can you really say prior to even guessing you KNEW where the money was?

Ahhh, the mind loves to live in a conceptual reality. I know that space well.

[WildeChilde]

@Serotoninluv Thank you for that. I’m glad to hear I’m not alone in this.  The mind makes things so difficult sometimes.  

[Ether]

Meditate and in the end if you have stillness...you will see reality.

[Joseph Maynor]

There is no you reasoning anything out. That is just part of the movie.  The Mind is spinning a tale about reality.  Fitting in the missing image where all there is is dots.  That’s how storytelling works.  That’s what the Ego does.  Clinging to thoughts does not do anything!   Reality is not controllable by the Ego’s clinging to various beliefs, including that it can know, do, and control.  Those are just beliefs.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[WildeChilde]

@Joseph Maynor I wonder why reality is doing that.   It seems to confuse the ego, at least this ego, quite a bit.  Is there a reason for the story?

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, WildeChilde said:

@Joseph Maynor I wonder why reality is doing that.   It seems to confuse the ego, at least this ego, quite a bit.  Is there a reason for the story?

The Ego is nothing other than beliefs taken too seriously.

Watch 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbj4nLOPN8o

Edited February 22, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[TheEnlightenedWon]

@WildeChilde It sounds like you have a curious mind, which I view as a good thing. Some will say that the only way to understand the true nature of reality is through direct experience. This is true. However, until you experience truth of reality for yourself, philosophical thought experiments can be crucial road signs pointing towards your future enlightenment. Why do you think Leo has so many great videos about philosophical principles?

To paraphrase Echart Tolle, the words (concepts, thought experiments) are not the Enlightenment itself. But that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be "signposts" pointing towards it.

People telling you DON'T do this or DO do this are preaching a dogma. You are the experiencer - not them. The way you spend your time is ultimately up to you.

 

[WildeChilde]

@TheEnlightenedWon Thank you, you tapped right into the heart of my concern.

I’m very skeptical now because I thought for the longest time science was the true bastion and purveyor of truth after I left the Church.