Post Enlightenment Observations

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, Ether said:

What thoughts about the body\ mind are an ilusion? Being fat? Or being neurotic? Those I understand

There are illusion because they are not it(truth). All thoughts are an illusion (if you consider them to be true ), not any specific ones.

[Ether]

@Shanmugam Man, are you guys going to teach me or what? Stop teasing!

I never claimed to know everything!

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

lol I mistook it as if that was addressed to me

You actually speaking from a perception of unity is you "mistook" it?

That's even funnier! BAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

Oh this is just priceless...

[Ether]

4 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

There are illusion because they are not it(truth). All thoughts are an illusion (if you consider them to be true ), not any specific ones.

Thoughts about what?

Give me examples

[Faceless]

9 minutes ago, Ether said:

What thoughts about the body\ mind are an ilusion? Being fat? Or being neurotic? Those I understand

Those thoughts are some of the thoughts ‘images’ that form the image of ‘the you’. 

Those thoughts are not a truth but are the result of measure/compassion with a particular image that you hold as ‘better or worse’ 

thought plays the game of good vs bad. But those conditioned opinions are based off other opinions of the past perhaps. Not facts but opinions/ideas 

not truths but movments of duality 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Faceless

[Saumaya]

Just now, Ether said:

Thoughts about what?

Give me examples

As I said, everything

[Shanmugam]

Just now, Ether said:

@Shanmugam Man, are you guys going to teach me or what? Stop teasing!

I never claimed to know everything!

Without a witnessing awareness, is there anything else to be conscious of the body and the mind?

When I say 'illusion', I am using it as a direct translation of the word 'Maya'... 

But just understanding this is sufficient for now to go ahead and abide as witness:  Everything that is witnessed is changing and impermanent, but the witness doesn't change. 

[Ether]

@Shanmugam So imparmaneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeent.

So imparmaneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeent.

We dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, Ether said:

Thoughts about what?

Give me examples

EVERYTHING

[Ether]

2 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

EVERYTHING

Everything but you cant give me one?

[Shanmugam]

@Ether You already said that you are having fewer thoughts.. That is a good indication of the progress. Just abide as this witness.. As per my understanding, you already have a good clarity on what to do. Forget about all these concepts and words. They are not for you. As you abide as witness more and more without identifying with the contents of consciousness, there is really nothing that you have to do.

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@Ether You already said that you are having fewer thoughts.. That is a good indication of the progress. Just abide as this witness.. As per my understanding, you already have a good clarity on what to do. Forget about all these concepts and words. They are not for you. As you abide as witness more and more without identifying with the contents of consciousness, there is really nothing that you have to do.

 

PS: Plz stop fighting guys 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Shin

[Shanmugam]

8 minutes ago, SOUL said:

You actually speaking from a perception of unity is you "mistook" it?

That's even funnier! BAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

Oh this is just priceless...

Do you have any jokes for the 'enlightenment jokes' thread? 

[Ether]

@Shanmugam yeah, sometimes i just feel curious about the truth

@Shin We must have different definitions of fighting

[Saumaya]

6 minutes ago, Ether said:

Everything but you cant give me one?

I love.......(insert)

I like @Shanmugam

I hate @Saumaya

This room is empty

Basically thoughts that are taken to be true, function as a belief ,and no belief is true. Also thoughts are physical and are dual(just like beliefs).

Edited February 26, 2018 by Saumaya

[Shanmugam]

1 hour ago, Shanmugam said:

There is one thing which you are not getting it, which I am going to repeat to you for the third time now: Getting liberated is one thing; guiding another person to liberation is another thing.

If you want to guide others to liberation, you should not only be liberated and free in the first place, but you should also know how to communicate certain things, starting from a person who is a beginner on the path (whose conditioning is very deep) to someone who has progressed quite well.

How many people will understand what you just said? How helpful will it be to a seeker who has already learned a lot of concepts about enlightenment?  I already mentioned that speaking about absolute and relative is a teaching device! 

I already addressed this in my thread regarding neo-Advaita trap! 

Enlightenment itself is a lie! When I tell a person that he is not enlightened, I know that I am lying to him.. Because, saying 'you are already enlightened' to an absolute beginner will do nothing to him! Saying 'you don't have to do anything for enlightenment' will make no difference to him! 

How do you talk to a 3-year-old kid? If she doesn't eat food, you may first try telling him 'You will not grow up if you don't eat properly'. But she wouldn't listen. Then you may try telling her 'If you don't eat then I will ask Santa Claus to not give you any presents for Christmas' or something like that.

Have you heard of the expression 'removing a thorn using another thorn'? A teaching is not the truth but a device! 

I had a Satori in 2002. If you had told me that enlightenment is like a process which happens with various awakening experiences, I would have agreed with you by that time.. Because, I indeed had a lot of such glimpses which allowed me to feel like I was getting 'more awakened' than before ...But I cannot agree with you now because what happened in July 2014 pretty much ended it. There is no more getting closer to anything because I am everything... 

Your problem might be this: Since you already said that this is not your experience, (which I myself would have said before July 2014), you have a problem in accepting what we say. Because, you also want to consider yourself as 'enlightened'... That's why you keep asking people 'If my experience is different than what you say, will you consider as enlightenment'... Why do you even care? Why do you expect such a validation? Because you want to put a label called 'enlightenment' on your experience of reality.

You may say that this is a projection. But you are pretty much proving this is true, everytime you post a message on this forum. Of course, it is a belief, in the same way, saying that a tree exists is also a belief (according to how you are defining belief here)... Because I can doubt the existence of a tree but I can never doubt the existence of the consciousness which is aware of the tree.. In this sense, what I say about you is a belief too. But just like there is a consensus among people that the tree actually exists, there is also a consensus to what I am saying among people who are really liberated. When we interact with other people, we only communicate based on this consensus. 

I did not have any need to say that I am no longer living in duality until I decided to write about it on my blog. So, I was pretty much silent about it for about  2 years... Only after seeing that a lot of people are totally confused, I thought that putting everything down in writing can help them. And I know that it is helping them because they say that. Just day before yesterday, one guy who is in my friend list on Facebook was talking about the suffering he is going through. I offered him an assurance that suffering is not going to be permanent. He seemed to be really unhappy and finding his whole life meaningless. If I copy and paste what you have written above, it will not make any difference to him at all! They are just empty words...

Note: Try to understand what I have written by paying full attention, not selective attention.. Do you know what that means?.. It is what you are doing. You only seem to scan for certain statements that you can possibly disagree with by semantics and selectively quote that statement alone... Once you pull out a statement from a passage, usually it loses its context.

 

 

@SOUL  You have been conveniently doing one thing over and over again.. You haven't addressed many things I said in the above post... I think it is very clear and written in simple English. What points do you have in disagreeing with me here? 

[SOUL]

2 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

There is one thing which you are not getting it, which I am going to repeat to you for the third time now: Getting liberated is one thing; guiding another person to liberation is another thing.

If you want to guide others to liberation, you should not only be liberated and free in the first place, but you should also know how to communicate certain things, starting from a person who is a beginner on the path (whose conditioning is very deep) to someone who has progressed quite well.

How many people will understand what you just said? How helpful will it be to a seeker who has already learned a lot of concepts about enlightenment?  I already mentioned that speaking about absolute and relative is a teaching device! 

I already addressed this in my thread regarding neo-Advaita trap! 

Enlightenment itself is a lie! When I tell a person that he is not enlightened, I know that I am lying to him.. Because, saying 'you are already enlightened' to an absolute beginner will do nothing to him! Saying 'you don't have to do anything for enlightenment' will make no difference to him! 

How do you talk to a 3-year-old kid? If she doesn't eat food, you may first try telling him 'You will not grow up if you don't eat properly'. But she wouldn't listen. Then you may try telling her 'If you don't eat then I will ask Santa Claus to not give you any presents for Christmas' or something like that.

Have you heard of the expression 'removing a thorn using another thorn'? A teaching is not the truth but a device! 

I had a Satori in 2002. If you had told me that enlightenment is like a process which happens with various awakening experiences, I would have agreed with you by that time.. Because, I indeed had a lot of such glimpses which allowed me to feel like I was getting 'more awakened' than before ...But I cannot agree with you now because what happened in July 2014 pretty much ended it. There is no more getting closer to anything because I am everything... 

Your problem might be this: Since you already said that this is not your experience, (which I myself would have said before July 2014), you have a problem in accepting what we say. Because, you also want to consider yourself as 'enlightened'... That's why you keep asking people 'If my experience is different than what you say, will you consider as enlightenment'... Why do you even care? Why do you expect such a validation? Because you want to put a label called 'enlightenment' on your experience of reality.

You may say that this is a projection. But you are pretty much proving this is true, everytime you post a message on this forum. Of course, it is a belief, in the same way, saying that a tree exists is also a belief (according to how you are defining belief here)... Because I can doubt the existence of a tree but I can never doubt the existence of the consciousness which is aware of the tree.. In this sense, what I say about you is a belief too. But just like there is a consensus among people that the tree actually exists, there is also a consensus to what I am saying among people who are really liberated. When we interact with other people, we only communicate based on this consensus. 

I did not have any need to say that I am no longer living in duality until I decided to write about it on my blog. So, I was pretty much silent about it for about  2 years... Only after seeing that a lot of people are totally confused, I thought that putting everything down in writing can help them. And I know that it is helping them because they say that. Just day before yesterday, one guy who is in my friend list on Facebook was talking about the suffering he is going through. I offered him an assurance that suffering is not going to be permanent. He seemed to be really unhappy and finding his whole life meaningless. If I copy and paste what you have written above, it will not make any difference to him at all! They are just empty words...

Note: Try to understand what I have written by paying full attention, not selective attention.. Do you know what that means?.. It is what you are doing. You only seem to scan for certain statements that you can possibly disagree with by semantics and selectively quote that statement alone... Once you pull out a statement from a passage, usually it loses its context.

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@SOUL  You have been conveniently doing one thing over and over again.. You haven't addressed many things I said in the above post... I think it is very clear and written in simple English. What points do you have in disagreeing with me here? 

Does it matter if I disagree? It shouldn't and that is why I ask what if someone has a differing experience perspective, it shouldn't matter. Although, there are people who express that their experience perspective is the absolute truth by using absolute terms in how they speak about it.

I don't tell people they are already enlightened and that they don't have to do anything, that's you lying again since you already admit you lie but I am aware enough to recognize you building a false narrative straw man even without your admission.

I say what I said to who I was speaking to, not to everyone I ever talk to so what I say to someone who has no understanding isn't what I say to the person who I made that post to. You are again building a false narrative straw man because you yourself say you change what you say for who you are speaking to, why can't I? You can't deceive me!

It doesn't matter to be considered "enlightened" and isn't why I ask people if they exclude others based on experience perspective. I ask because if they genuinely are seeking unity they would recognize creating separation but if they want to be acknowledged as "enlightened" they will speak in exclusionary terms so expose their own intentions in answering.

If someone authentically has an experience perspective of unity they will recognize it in others and won't deny it others. Isn't that essentially what Namaste means? So, I prefer to focus on the already existing unity we share and seek to help others be aware of self created separation that may remain so awareness of our unity is increasing in clarity.

I don't understand why people will seek to limit experience perspective by telling others that the absolute is limited by using absolute terms. It's a paradox that absolute is relative in how each of us perceives it so using absolute terms actually attempts to limit the infinite so it fits our own perspective but doesn't actually limit the infinite in any way, obviously.

We don't have to illuminate the sense of separation in others, they perceive it in themselves already as the sense of self creates it subconsciously. So adding additional separation perspectives only creates more stumbling blocks to being aware of the unity that exists.

Even recognizing that the sense of separation is part of the whole absolute weakens that sense's empowering hold on someone perspective. Acknowledging the absolute is in unity on both sides of the sense of separation and even is the sense of it shatters the illusion once realized so why lie about it as a teaching tool, be genuine about it from the start.

My way of speaking about my experience may differ from others but I don't tell them they are wrong or flawed in their experience. Although, if they are speaking about separation from the perspective of separation it's going to be different than speaking about separation from the perspective of unity, I speak from unity.

Does this reply satisfy what you sought from me? Or will you ask me again since you seem to think I'm somehow not responding to your queries to your satisfaction?

 

 

[Saumaya]

@SOUL Can u elaborate on your sense of separation and perspective of unity.. you seem to use these quite a lot

Edited February 27, 2018 by Saumaya

[Nothing000]

Saumaya,

 

Congratulations on your enlightenment And wonderful of you to share your post-enlightenment observations

 

Question. How do you view other human begins ? Particulary, when you're interacting with them ? Whether it be on this forum or in person ? 

 

Thank you for your time and thank you for sharing with us. ❤

[SOUL]

44 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

@SOUL Elaborate on your sense of separation and perspective of unity.. you seem to use these quite a lot

Well, the body naturally creates the sense of self identity although we can expand our awareness to be conscious of the unity in all things. Since mind subconsciously creates the sense of self identity the effects of this is evident in creating paradigms of separation but if someone is authentically awakened to unity it will differ drastically... at least in my own experience of it.

Edited February 27, 2018 by SOUL