Post Enlightenment Observations

[Shanmugam]

1 hour ago, Ether said:

@Shanmugam Can I see some pics of you? Oh...

@Shin Thats a stereotype!!!

Here is my Facebook profile: https://www.facebook.com/shanmugam83  Lots of pics there...

Posting more and more pics is going to get this thread locked.. 

I am already very good in deviating from the main topic of the thread and so are you.. The partnership between you and me is the worst! 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Ether]

@Shanmugam Hey. They say to work in every skill, right?

[SOUL]

This whole list is beliefs on "absolute truth" from subjective experience perspective.

"be·lief

an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something."

[Saumaya]

12 minutes ago, SOUL said:

This whole list is beliefs on "absolute truth" from subjective experience perspective.

"be·lief

an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something."

They are not beliefs about Absolute Truth. As I said these are effects of enlightenment. The effects are not it(Truth). Also these have come from experience, not from someone elses words

Edited February 26, 2018 by Saumaya

[SOUL]

5 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

They are not beliefs about Absolute Truth. As I said these are effects of enlightenment. The effects are not it(Truth). Also these have come from experience, not from someone elses words

Side stepping using semantics doesn't change the fact they are beliefs derived from subjective experience even if you want to call them "effects of enlightenment" they are purported to be from the enlightenment of "absolute truth" in someone.

A belief is accepting that something is true or exists, whether it's an effect or an experience or enlightenment or even "absolute truth" itself. Another semantic side step of saying, 'Well, I don't believe it, I know it' is just belief that one accepts their own 'knowing' is true or exists.

Anything we accept/trust as true and/or exists is a belief even if it is our awareness of the now just accepting as it is, being present in the moment. Any of every type of experience that is accepted as it is we are believing it is as it is even if we are call it an illusion or maya or false.

[Saumaya]

10 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Side stepping using semantics doesn't change the fact they are beliefs derived from subjective experience even if you want to call them "effects of enlightenment" they are purported to be from the enlightenment of "absolute truth" in someone.

A belief is accepting that something is true or exists, whether it's an effect or an experience or enlightenment or even "absolute truth" itself. Another semantic side step of saying, 'Well, I don't believe it, I know it' is just belief that one accepts their own 'knowing' is true or exists.

Anything we accept/trust as true and/or exists is a belief even if it is our awareness of the now just accepting as it is, being present in the moment. Any of every type of experience that is accepted as it is we are believing it is as it is even if we are call it an illusion or maya or false.

Beliefs as in accepting something as true which you actually dont know about. What you are saying basically is that all knowledge is belief which I agree with but only when you want is absolute truth. No belief is true when it comes to Absolute, but beliefs still can be relative truths. Any experience I describe here is subject to that obviously. I dont see your point though, why are we discussing this again?

19 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Any of every type of experience that is accepted as it is we are believing it is as it is even if we are call it an illusion or maya or false.

Only when you are referring to truth in Absolute terms. Dont you know the difference between Absolute and Relative truth?

[SOUL]

27 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Beliefs as in accepting something as true which you actually dont know about. What you are saying basically is that all knowledge is belief which I agree with but only when you want is absolute truth. No belief is true when it comes to Absolute, but beliefs still can be relative truths. Any experience I describe here is subject to that obviously. I dont see your point though, why are we discussing this again?

Only when you are referring to truth in Absolute terms. Dont you know the difference between Absolute and Relative truth?

You added "which you actually dont know about" to what you think belief means. It doesn't matter whether someone 'knows' it or not, if one accepts that it is true/exists, that is belief. You accept as true that "No belief is true when it comes to Absolute"

"Dont you know the difference between Absolute and Relative truth?" All 'truth' is relative since truth is the quality of being true, it depends on being true to something for it to be 'truth'.

The "Absolute" isn't separate from the ever changing experience of life that people call maya, illusion or the dream so the "Absolute" is actually changing, too. People who are 'enlightening' their consciousness are attuning their awareness to the aspect of the "Absolute" they believe is the unchanging, the 'universal constant' so to speak, whether it really is the 'unchanging' or not.

All of existence is one and there is no separation except what someone would perceive so the "Absolute" is comprised of all of it, even "maya". That is what is enlightenment, right? Our awareness of that unity of the whole and that includes all of it, including "maya". There is no separation between the changing or unchanging, it's whole in unity so if one transcends in awareness to the "Absolute" this is evident.

Now you want to know why are we discussing this? Limiting belief.... it's not just all or any belief, it's the limiting belief. All ways lead to the "Absolute" and all effects are from our interacting with "Absolute" even the effect that is the sense of separation which some call the self since it's all one.

When we "accept as true/exists" in limiting ways by saying 'enlightenment is only this and is not that' we are creating separation in our perception of the "Absolute" that is not really the genuine nature of it because, it's unlimited, it's infinite, it's whole. 

This is using the sense of separation that creates self identity which exists within the "Absolute" to define the "Absolute" within the limitations of what is accepted instead of transcending the limiting sense of separation in awareness to recognize that even the sense of separation is "Absolute".

It's that sense of separation that has people limit enlightenment as only this or it's not that, that some are and others aren't. They limit the "Absolute" to only what they perceive it to be as an esoteric understanding that they have and another doesn't.

You want the "Absolute truth"? Anywhere someone draws a line to separate 'enlightened' from 'darkened'.....the absolute exists on both sides of that line and is that line even if one isn't aware of it.... so I suggest awaken to it

[Saumaya]

Goddamit cant you keep it short, this how you do it

15 minutes ago, SOUL said:

The "Absolute" isn't separate from the ever changing experience of life that people call maya, illusion or the dream

Agreed

15 minutes ago, SOUL said:

so the "Absolute" is actually changing, too.

No it isnt, Absoute comprises of everything. It is changeless, eternal, omnipresent, and ever everpresent. All change happens within Absolute.  Absolute doesnt change.

 

19 minutes ago, SOUL said:

All of existence is one and there is no separation except what someone would perceive so the "Absolute" is comprised of all of it, even "maya". That is what is enlightenment, right? Our awareness of that unity of the whole and that includes all of it, including "maya"

Yes

23 minutes ago, SOUL said:

This is using the sense of separation that creates self identity which exists within the "Absolute" to define the "Absolute" within the limitations of what is accepted instead of transcending the limiting sense of separation in awareness to recognize that even the sense of separation is "Absolute"

No, sense of seperation isnt Absolute. Dont get confused. Its duality. Absolute is non dual. Dual is within Non Dual. Thats the best I can put into words.

 

28 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It's that sense of separation that has people limit enlightenment as only this or it's not that, that some are and others aren't

Im defining enlightenment as end of duality. When the false self kills itself realising its falseness, thats enlightenment. You can call taking a dump everyday enlightenment.

31 minutes ago, SOUL said:

You want the "Absolute truth"? Anywhere someone draws a line to separate 'enlightened' from 'darkened'.....the absolute exists on both sides of that line and is that line even if one isn't aware of it

The false self never existed. The false self which was endarkened as you say, kills itself, so nobody achieves enlightenment.Absolute was always Absolute. Enlightenment is not an achievement. You were always enlightened. In awakening, enlightenment becomes enlightened. Blah blah blah. 

42 minutes ago, SOUL said:

so I suggest awaken to it

Awakening needs a self to get awakened . I am completely truth realized, no self realized blah blah blah. I cant awaken because there is no me left to be awakened.

I hope this answers your questions man

And if you have more, I request you to keep it short.

[nick96]

@Saumaya how old are you ?

[Shanmugam]

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

You added "which you actually dont know about" to what you think belief means. It doesn't matter whether someone 'knows' it or not, if one accepts that it is true/exists, that is belief. You accept as true that "No belief is true when it comes to Absolute"

"Dont you know the difference between Absolute and Relative truth?" All 'truth' is relative since truth is the quality of being true, it depends on being true to something for it to be 'truth'.

The "Absolute" isn't separate from the ever changing experience of life that people call maya, illusion or the dream so the "Absolute" is actually changing, too. People who are 'enlightening' their consciousness are attuning their awareness to the aspect of the "Absolute" they believe is the unchanging, the 'universal constant' so to speak, whether it really is the 'unchanging' or not.

All of existence is one and there is no separation except what someone would perceive so the "Absolute" is comprised of all of it, even "maya". That is what is enlightenment, right? Our awareness of that unity of the whole and that includes all of it, including "maya". There is no separation between the changing or unchanging, it's whole in unity so if one transcends in awareness to the "Absolute" this is evident.

Now you want to know why are we discussing this? Limiting belief.... it's not just all or any belief, it's the limiting belief. All ways lead to the "Absolute" and all effects are from our interacting with "Absolute" even the effect that is the sense of separation which some call the self since it's all one.

When we "accept as true/exists" in limiting ways by saying 'enlightenment is only this and is not that' we are creating separation in our perception of the "Absolute" that is not really the genuine nature of it because, it's unlimited, it's infinite, it's whole. 

This is using the sense of separation that creates self identity which exists within the "Absolute" to define the "Absolute" within the limitations of what is accepted instead of transcending the limiting sense of separation in awareness to recognize that even the sense of separation is "Absolute".

It's that sense of separation that has people limit enlightenment as only this or it's not that, that some are and others aren't. They limit the "Absolute" to only what they perceive it to be as an esoteric understanding that they have and another doesn't.

You want the "Absolute truth"? Anywhere someone draws a line to separate 'enlightened' from 'darkened'.....the absolute exists on both sides of that line and is that line even if one isn't aware of it.... so I suggest awaken to it

There is one thing which you are not getting it, which I am going to repeat to you for the third time now: Getting liberated is one thing; guiding another person to liberation is another thing.

If you want to guide others to liberation, you should not only be liberated and free in the first place, but you should also know how to communicate certain things, starting from a person who is a beginner on the path (whose conditioning is very deep) to someone who has progressed quite well.

How many people will understand what you just said? How helpful will it be to a seeker who has already learned a lot of concepts about enlightenment?  I already mentioned that speaking about absolute and relative is a teaching device! 

I already addressed this in my thread regarding neo-Advaita trap! 

Enlightenment itself is a lie! When I tell a person that he is not enlightened, I know that I am lying to him.. Because, saying 'you are already enlightened' to an absolute beginner will do nothing to him! Saying 'you don't have to do anything for enlightenment' will make no difference to him! 

How do you talk to a 3-year-old kid? If she doesn't eat food, you may first try telling him 'You will not grow up if you don't eat properly'. But she wouldn't listen. Then you may try telling her 'If you don't eat then I will ask Santa Claus to not give you any presents for Christmas' or something like that.

Have you heard of the expression 'removing a thorn using another thorn'? A teaching is not the truth but a device! 

I had a Satori in 2002. If you had told me that enlightenment is like a process which happens with various awakening experiences, I would have agreed with you by that time.. Because, I indeed had a lot of such glimpses which allowed me to feel like I was getting 'more awakened' than before ...But I cannot agree with you now because what happened in July 2014 pretty much ended it. There is no more getting closer to anything because I am everything... 

Your problem might be this: Since you already said that this is not your experience, (which I myself would have said before July 2014), you have a problem in accepting what we say. Because, you also want to consider yourself as 'enlightened'... That's why you keep asking people 'If my experience is different than what you say, will you consider as enlightenment'... Why do you even care? Why do you expect such a validation? Because you want to put a label called 'enlightenment' on your experience of reality.

You may say that this is a projection. But you are pretty much proving this is true, everytime you post a message on this forum. Of course, it is a belief, in the same way, saying that a tree exists is also a belief (according to how you are defining belief here)... Because I can doubt the existence of a tree but I can never doubt the existence of the consciousness which is aware of the tree.. In this sense, what I say about you is a belief too. But just like there is a consensus among people that the tree actually exists, there is also a consensus to what I am saying among people who are really liberated. When we interact with other people, we only communicate based on this consensus. 

I did not have any need to say that I am no longer living in duality until I decided to write about it on my blog. So, I was pretty much silent about it for about  2 years... Only after seeing that a lot of people are totally confused, I thought that putting everything down in writing can help them. And I know that it is helping them because they say that. Just day before yesterday, one guy who is in my friend list on Facebook was talking about the suffering he is going through. I offered him an assurance that suffering is not going to be permanent. He seemed to be really unhappy and finding his whole life meaningless. If I copy and paste what you have written above, it will not make any difference to him at all! They are just empty words...

Note: Try to understand what I have written by paying full attention, not selective attention.. Do you know what that means?.. It is what you are doing. You only seem to scan for certain statements that you can possibly disagree with by semantics and selectively quote that statement alone... Once you pull out a statement from a passage, usually it loses its context.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, nick96 said:

@Saumaya how old are you ?

18

[nick96]

1 minute ago, Saumaya said:

18

At what age did you begin doing spiritual work ? 

[Saumaya]

@Shanmugam Good stuff as always

[Saumaya]

3 minutes ago, nick96 said:

At what age did you begin doing spiritual work ? 

14ish, 16is I was done

[dorg]

@SOUL I found your latest post on this thread helpful. Thank you.

[Shin]

5 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

14ish, 16is I was done

7 hours ago, egoeimai said:

 

In 20 years you save us all.

Plz do it.

[Ether]

@Shin you are your own saviour

[nick96]

7 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

14ish, 16is I was done

What brought you to spirituality so young ? I am 21 now and began meditating seriously when I turned 20 after a lot of suffering.

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, Shin said:

In 20 years you save us all.

Plz do it.

I wish I had such powers!

But you guys dont need saving, You guys are already perfect <3

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, Ether said:

@Shin you are your own saviour

Yeah but just in case I die I need a backup plan ya kna 

@Saumaya No we're not, we can't change water in coca cola yet

Edited February 26, 2018 by Shin