Post Enlightenment Observations

[Natasha]

5 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

End of the illusion that there was someone does happen when duality disappears.. But the phrase ''Permanent death awareness' sounds like an odd description for this.. 

Yeah it might sound like an odd description, especially considering there is no birth in the first place  

The points in OP is the real deal.

[Saumaya]

13 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

End of the illusion that there was someone does happen when duality disappears.. But the phrase ''Permanent death awareness' sounds like an odd description for this.. 

Saumaya describes as 'being conscious of my mortality to a very high degree'...

That is something which I don't experience because I don't sense My existence as something time-bound, even though I know that the body will die.  But excluding this ''Permanent death awareness'', all the other points  indeed perfectly describe how I experience reality every moment.

Anyway, all that matters is this:  "11)The questions have completely disappeared. There is no more seeking "

As long as seeking disappears and a complete freedom is sensed, there will be no need to seek further.  The psychological sense of lack is gone and life is no longer felt as a longing to travel from Point A to Point B.. 

@Shanmugam Yes thats right...actually Natashas description is the other side of the coin in permanent death awareness. Ones existence is not time bound but one's life in the dream is time bound.

[Timotheus]

@Saumaya Thanks for the reply, happy to hear that.

[Shanmugam]

@Natasha @Saumaya thanks for the clarification 

 

[Shanmugam]

@Saumaya what is the meaning of  'saumaya'? 

[Saumaya]

24 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@Saumaya what is the meaning of  'saumaya'? 

@Shanmugam Komal or soft. It could also mean a quiet and observant person i think i would check in a hindi dictionary. Its my name nevertheless.

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Saumaya said:

@Shanmugam Yes thats right...actually Natashas description is the other side of the coin in permanent death awareness. Ones existence is not time bound but one's life in the dream is time bound.

Thought/self is a movment of time. When there is no movement of the self/thought ‘psychological time’ this is timelessness without measure. This is freedom from time. ?

Edited February 21, 2018 by Faceless

[SOUL]

Well, it seems most agree you speak all the criteria of 'enlightenment', I guess congratulations is in order....haha

[Faceless]

What’s enlightenment? 

I thought we were talking about psychological time??‍♂️

 

[Faceless]

timelessness implies no entity to be anything 

NO TIME = NO ?

right? 

[Saumaya]

@Faceless Time can only perceived with space. Timlessness means spacelessness which mean no objects(entities) to be present. So yes it is correct in a certain sense.

[Faceless]

16 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

@Faceless Time can only perceived with space. Timlessness means spacelessness which mean no objects(entities) to be present. So yes it is correct in a certain sense.

Yeah no subject/object. 

Space/wholeness/perception/truth 

time/fragmentation/thought/reality 

 

[JustinS]

@Saumaya Over these 2 years would you say your realization has become more embodied? Or lot of unwiring of the mind’s habitual patterns? 

What do you feel about death? How do you think you would react when someone close passes away? Would you feel the pain immensely and move on to the next moment? Would you see it as just part of the dream? (You can just answer: I don’t know, when it happens I will know)

Edited February 21, 2018 by JustinS

[tsuki]

I think that I can elaborate on the constant death awareness from my point of view.

Some of you may have experienced an event that made your life crumble on itself. Like a huge loss that simply crushes you, obliterates you.
That event causes you to be left hanging in void. There is nothing to hold on to. No way to tell up from down.
You feel crushing sadness that you were reminded of something you had forgotten, that there is nothing to hold on to and there never were.
Sadness comes from you trying to make reality something it is not. You are not letting go.

It's like looking at a photo of an explosion, or a wildfire.
You look at it, dumbstruck at all of the incredible complexity there is and that you miss it, completely, every second in everyday life.
Then, you look at the photo again and see something completely different, thinking that a second ago you were being ignorant in thinking that you understood the thing. That it was spelling your ignorance for you, and yet, you didn't see the whole thing. You look away, embarrassed and smiling that you know the wisdom of life.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by tsuki

[tsuki]

It's like writing an SMS to your loved one trying to tell her to "enjoy life" and the auto-correct changes that to "I'm enjoying life" and realizing that you are giving the advice to yourself. That correcting it back would spoil the whole thing and you let it go, sending it.

And then, she replies: "I'm enjoying my life too!".

constant death awareness is seeing your own, so called, wisdom turning on itself, showing you your own ignorance.

[egoless]

12 hours ago, Saumaya said:

@egoless It was like I had multiple realisations at the same time. I could feel my body being destroyed and my awareness leaving my body and spreading everywhere. It lasted for about a minute or so. I was surprised of how immense is the role of the body in enlightenment.

Exactly that has happened to me as well. But I don’t think I am Enlightened at this point. The list you have mentioned somewhat resonates with me except - I still question. My experience sometimes overshadows my true nature. But my understanding as being consciousness without objective qualities is there. 

[Shanmugam]

7 hours ago, SOUL said:

Well, it seems most agree you speak all the criteria of 'enlightenment', I guess congratulations is in order....haha

As far as I am concerned, enlightenment is just a word. And nowhere in my experience of the reality I see a label 'enlightenment'..

The bottomline is the end of seeking, the end of craving to become something. Ever since that happened to me, my experience of reality has been way different from how it was before. And when people like @Saumaya describe his observations on his experience, I find that it is the same as how I experience reality.

Of course, a person can make up such descriptions and there is no way to know. But once the seeking is over, I don't see any reason why he would look for a validation from others either. The reason why I say this is because you asked a similar question to me before. You asked me whether I would consider another person as 'enlightened' only if the way he describes his experience is exactly similar to mine. I not only said 'No' (because words may differ), but I also said that there is really no need for such a question. Because if someone is looking for some kind of validation from others regarding his subjective experience, that in itself indicates that something is not true there. If you feel hungry, you don't ask someone else if you are hungry and wait for their confirmation. You will simply eat!

But you also need to see that many such descriptions by many people are similar. I know that there is an obvious difference between my experience before and after July 2014. And I can very easily recognize when other people state something similar. Such similar descriptions give a consensus among people who experience reality this way.

In fact, people think they know that external world exists, only because of consensus. When I look at the tree, I assume that the tree looks the same way to your eyes as well only based on consensus. And, the existence of others is also based only on consensus and inference. You know what you see in dream did not really happen, because there is no consensus. 

But if someone  pays careful attention to his subjective experience, he would know that only thing he can be sure about is the fact that there is consciousness which exists. Everything is perceived and experienced in this conscious, subjective experience. That is why they call this as absolute reality. 

I still suspect that you are assuming that something is wrong with other people here in this forum. I may be wrong but that is what most of your posts indicate. You seem to imply that there is something that you understand that many people in this forum do not understand. While you simply seem to be making conclusions about others by saying that their descriptions are their 'beliefs', I suspect if you are stuck with your own beliefs about the way things are with other people. 

Anyway, I know that we are in agreement on one thing.. All this game of seeking enlightenment is only about one thing: end of suffering! period. What that matters is not all those countless books about enlightenment, chakras, psychic powers, esoteric knowledge, complicated concepts etc etc. Only thing that matters is if the suffering has ended and if the ultimate freedom is known. And by suffering, I am not only talking about serious miserable experience that one goes through from time to time; I am talking about the psychological lack which indicates that something is not enough, which motivates you to seek further and which makes you prone to misery.

Once the seeking ends, some people are just silent about it while some people attempt to tell others that it is possible for others too to end their suffering. This is how teachings and teachers are born. And people who seem to really help most of the people are the ones who understand the psychology and the workings of the mind. That is why I kept saying to you earlier that ending your own suffering is one thing; helping other people to end their suffering is different thing. I suspect that this is something that you fail to understand. There is nothing wrong with that if you don't understand it because if you are at peace then nothing matters to you. But when you make posts in this forum, your intentions are not clear. Because, there are only three common reasons why people would post in this forum: 1)to get help 2) to  help 3) to show off  .

Edited February 21, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Saumaya]

3 hours ago, JustinS said:

@Saumaya Over these 2 years would you say your realization has become more embodied? Or lot of unwiring of the mind’s habitual patterns? 

What do you feel about death? How do you think you would react when someone close passes away? Would you feel the pain immensely and move on to the next moment? Would you see it as just part of the dream? (You can just answer: I don’t know, when it happens I will know)

@JustinS Mind becomes completely free of habitual patterns as I mentioned in the list. I still think there is growth possible after enlightenment, for example I constantly watch my behaviour for how to better respond in a situation and all that. Maybe I was a bit harsh or too blunt. Also beliefs about certain things can still be incorrect in a certain sense. You have to sort those out too. Because No belief is true, You're at a leisure to believe whatever you want but they could be relatively false.

I wont feel much. If I am devoted to the person, I may cry for a while. Its all part of the dream anyway.

[Saumaya]

@Shanmugam Well said

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

Because, there are only three common reasons why people would post in this forum: 1)to get help 2) to  help 3) to show off  

Indeed..only we can’t help one another. All we can do is share with one anohter significance of self learning and so on. It’s up to the other if they want to pay attention to what is said and explore for themselves.. Freedom from the self is life long learning. This freedom should express itself in our everyday living. How we act, how we eat, walk, treat others as so on.

The more people that get involved the less turmoil the world endures. It’s simple, every step to order in society starts with us inwardly. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Faceless