Beware of Neo-advaita Trap- Read this long elaborate essay

[Shanmugam]

I came across a page where someone has beautifully conveyed what I wanted to convey to some people. Make sure you read the complete essay. He talks about a beautiful paradox in a very good way. . I think it will be really worth it for many people to read especially those people who are 'conditioned' by some of the neo-Advaita teachers.. Also look up 'Andrew Cohen' and his confessions.  

http://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/writings/the-birth-and-death-of-fundamentalism-in-nonduality-and-advaita-teachings/

[Viking]

by neo-advaita you mean that one's spiritual practice is only listening to teachers to hope to get the wisdom of enlightenment?

[Shanmugam]

Just now, Viking said:

by neo-advaita you mean that one's spiritual practice is only listening to teachers to hope to get the wisdom of enlightenment?

People who only teach things like 'You don't exist', 'You don't have to do anything to get enlightened', 'you are already enlightened' 'Just be' etc...

These statements are useful pointers when said during the right time to the seeker. But it can't really help if this is the only teaching. If you read that article, it will make sense. 

[Viking]

@Shanmugam thank you, I think i've fallen into that trap. I will read it today.

[SOUL]

Quote

Jeff was the enemy and I had to get rid of him. The personal self was the devil, and it was only in the destruction of the devil that I would meet God. The ego was the lie that had to be annihilated. Or at least, that’s what I believed at the time. I had read a lot of spiritual books, and had come to a lot of conclusions about reality – not realising that my conclusions were actually personal beliefs.

Haha..... hmmmm.

 

[Shanmugam]

7 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Haha..... hmmmm.

 

If you find something funny or hilarious, is it always necessary to make a post about it.. Just wondering.. 

[Nahm]

@Shanmugam Great post ?

[SOUL]

@Shanmugam There are many more things i find humorous that I do not post about.

What do you think about the quote? .... just wondering.

[Shanmugam]

@SOUL Nothing much.. Jeff realized that it was all his beliefs and conclusions and that's good for him

[SOUL]

@Shanmugam So an essay you post here suggesting it's something you are trying to convey to others of which I pull out the principle revelation he speaks in it and you think "nothing much" when asked about it?

That's hilarious! BAHA!

[Shanmugam]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

@Shanmugam So an essay you post here suggesting it's something you are trying to convey to others of which I pull out the principle revelation he speaks in it and you think "nothing much" when asked about it?

That's hilarious! BAHA!

yes,.. If I say more, then you will say 'I am using too many words'...  I remember that hilarious post you made very well.

If people can understand what is written in that long essay, what is there for me to add?

[snowleopard]

Of course, a so-called neo-advaitan might say ... no trapee self-identity, no trap. But agreed that that may be a stage-specific pointer.

Edited February 19, 2018 by snowleopard

[SOUL]

3 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

yes,.. If I say more, then you will say 'I am using too many words'...  I remember that hilarious post you made very well.

If people can understand what is written in that long essay, what is there for me to add?

You seem to forever hold onto that conversation never wanting to let it go. You only heard what you wanted to hear, not what I really said.

Let it go. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Shanmugam]

Just now, SOUL said:

You seem to forever hold onto that conversation never wanting to let it go. You only heard what you wanted to hear, not what I really said.

Let it go. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Are you in this forum to make fun of everyone and ridicule people?

The way you post every time reminds me of that hilarious conversation.. thats all. I am not suffering from Amnesia.. :)  Do you realize that your every post is predictable? In this same thread, I thought that your first reply was going to end 'just wondering' and thats how you ended it ...  And I certainly thought that your previous post is going to be about me not wanting to let go of that conversation and you indeed did that.. 

If you want, I can save your time and make posts for you with the following lines, whenever it is applicable :

1) BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA

2) Hilarious

3)Story time

4) Just be

5) So be it...

Is your response for 'Are you in this forum to make fun of everyone and ridicule people?' going to be 'so be it'? If yes, then so be it!

 

[Shanmugam]

Quote

 I thought I was free from all divisions, and meanwhile, ‘nonduality’ and ‘duality’ were at war, ‘personal’ and ‘impersonal’ had locked horns. I rejected all spiritual paths and practices – they were all dualistic and rooted in ignorance. I was at war with any teacher who looked like they offered a personal path. I saw these teachers as ‘dualistic’ because it looked like, in speaking to a person and offering them hope of any kind, they were actually feeding the seeking and keeping people trapped in their stories. Impersonal teachings – teachings which did not speak to a ‘person’ and did not offer the non-existent seeker any hope or comfort – were the only truth; that seemed the logical next step. And I enjoyed warning people about the dualistic teachers who were keeping people trapped in their ignorance – although of course, when challenged about this (“Jeff, isn’t it hypocritical to call other teachers ‘dualistic’ when there are no others, and duality is an illusion?”), I backtracked and said there was nobody here with an opinion about anything, and that everything was perfect as it was. Oh yes, I became very clever with words. You have to be, when you are defending a position, and trying to make it look like you have no position to defend. That’s how gurus are born. I call this the “Advaita Trap” – and at the time, I didn’t think I was trapped – I thought I was free. Often when you think you are free you are more trapped than ever.

 

@SOUL See if you can resonate with this... 

[Hsinav]

@Shanmugam

Good post, thanks!

[Hsinav]

@SOUL

How about starting a topic - yourself?

[Mercurio3]

Very interesting. Certainly “extreme advaita” lose its own sense. Enlightment is a path, and this path includes the return (death & resurrection). You have to escape (not annihilate it) from your ego in order to see the Truth. But it isn't a permanent state. Because existence exists itself through movement, expressing itself through duality, being everything that it could be. That's why it is infinite. Deny the experience of life is just another self-deception. It's deny existence itself.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Mercurio3

[Joseph Maynor]

I guess the relevant question here is what does a person need to become sustainably awake?  That's probably what's at issue with all teachings that purport to be a self-sustaining curriculum, teaching, school, method, etc.

Would the Enlightened Taoists agree with the Enlightened Advaitans or the Enlightened Zen Buddhists?  These schools differ so much in teachings -- but are the ends really that different?  The end seems to be the same, right?  You are deprogrammed from culture -- beliefs -- in some sense in all three of those teachings.  And in that you discover that reality was not what you thought it was.  That's awakening.  There's more than one path.  But I think getting up under cultural beliefs is the common denominator in all of them.

Shankara was right, Moksha (Enlightenment) is the result from the eradication of ignorance.  And ignorance is either clinging to the wrong beliefs or failing to cling to the right ones (if any).   But if you study the Taoists and Zen Buddhists they imply the same thing, just in a different way.  If you study Taoism, you'll be amazed!  I'm doing that now.  Zhuang Zhou and Nagarjuna both thought that messing around with categories and forming beliefs from them about reality is a foolish quest -- that language and theory is a trap in this work.   And that mentality informs the Zen Buddhists from its Chinese heritage.  

You can read Zhang Zhou here.  His book is called the Zhangzi.  I recommend it.  After the Tao Te Ching, it's the classic Taoist text.

https://ctext.org/zhuangzi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuangzi_(book)

//

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuang_Zhou

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarjuna

Edited February 19, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[snowleopard]

I came across JF a long while ago, probably in a batgap interview. There is some empathy with this ...