Inner Vs. Outer

[Electron]

If we need something in the external world or want to create something in the external world, I think we need to be passionate about this vision of ours, In a sense, we are craving for the emotional joy that we associate to our picture of the future. So that even a thought about its manifestation gives us a certain kind of satisfaction, but I think that whenever the presence of something excites you to the core, its absence doesn't do the same. So in a way you create a duality by desiring something; an emotional or sensational duality which is associated to your having it or not having it. In his recent video about fake growth vs real growth, Leo said that you gotta grow to a point where you don't need external something to satisfy yourself emotionally, you just need to change your emotional structure so that you become free from any emotional or sensational biases you have associated to any kind of circumstances. ( In some sense, its destroying the duality )

But I think we need an emotional bias towards our vision to work on it on the first place. otherwise your having it or not having it wouldn't bother you emotionally. Because if inner growth can give us everything we want, why would someone realizing this bother to change something externally, with all his energy and time? Its neurotic to be a workaholic and use all the power in your body to manifest your vision, but isn't that the thing, which revolutionize the external world & helps mankind?

Isn't external achievement and success important in a sense that it changes the external world in a better way, even though it might not be truly satisfying to us in the end? 

If someone doesn't associate any better emotional state other than what he is in, to his vision, Why the hell will he desire it and work on it obsessively? And if he isn't really obsessive about his work and is happy either way, won't the external change that he will produce will be relatively less than the obsessed one's( even though he'd end up much happier) ? So finally, should our health, emotional balance and inner fulfillment be prior to the external change we produce in the world?

Edited March 1, 2016 by Sigma

[dystopia]

I think you have the right idea. Abraham Hicks says that most people get it wrong by thinking that what is external is going to make you happy or fulfilled. She says that the feeling comes first. We manifest our physical reality according to our inner vibration. That's why when youre having a shit day & let it get to you, it only seems to get worse (it's because you feel bad). Therefore, a feeling (vibration) of lack can only bring you matching circumstances. By feeling fulfilled first, you are then attracting only things that match that vibration into your life.

Edited March 1, 2016 by shouldnt

[zenny]

@shouldnt I still find law of attraction quite strange.

I wonder how like attracts like..

I am curious to know more, have you tried the law of attraction thingy? if yes? how did you apply it and how does it work?

[Electron]

@zenny Watch movie "The secret"

[zenny]

@Sigma Even before watching it, I have doubts on what I heard about that movie.

I still think that taking actions are important. It is a confusing topic 

[Nathalie]

When I understand the secret rightly, you have to feel good, rich, healthy etc, in order to vibrate in a certain (high) form and therefore attract the things you want..

It means, you have to feel and act in a way you haven't done until this point because if you had felt accurately you would already have what you are looking for, wouldn't you?

It's the opposit of freedom in a sens you still focus on things and faking yourself telling you allready have it. Maybe it brings you a lot of material things but I agree with Leo, you won't grow spiritually speaking:

You'll be to occupied focusing the way you have to feel..

[zenny]

@MartineF I have a doubt. say that someone is feeling good, rich, healthy etc, and is exactly vibrating with a higher level of energy,but, will it be possible for him/her to get things that they want without taking the next logical action?. 

[Isle of View]

On 1.3.2016 at 3:46 PM, Sigma said:

If we need something in the external world or want to create something in the external world, I think we need to be passionate about this vision of ours, In a sense, we are craving for the emotional joy that we associate to our picture of the future. So that even a thought about its manifestation gives us a certain kind of satisfaction, but I think that whenever the presence of something excites you to the core, its absence doesn't do the same. So in a way you create a duality by desiring something; an emotional or sensational duality which is associated to your having it or not having it. In his recent video about fake growth vs real growth, Leo said that you gotta grow to a point where you don't need external something to satisfy yourself emotionally, you just need to change your emotional structure so that you become free from any emotional or sensational biases you have associated to any kind of circumstances. ( In some sense, its destroying the duality )

But I think we need an emotional bias towards our vision to work on it on the first place. otherwise your having it or not having it wouldn't bother you emotionally. Because if inner growth can give us everything we want, why would someone realizing this bother to change something externally, with all his energy and time? Its neurotic to be a workaholic and use all the power in your body to manifest your vision, but isn't that the thing, which revolutionize the external world & helps mankind?

Isn't external achievement and success important in a sense that it changes the external world in a better way, even though it might not be truly satisfying to us in the end? 

If someone doesn't associate any better emotional state other than what he is in, to his vision, Why the hell will he desire it and work on it obsessively? And if he isn't really obsessive about his work and is happy either way, won't the external change that he will produce will be relatively less than the obsessed one's( even though he'd end up much happier) ? So finally, should our health, emotional balance and inner fulfillment be prior to the external change we produce in the world?

Hello Sigma, 

from what you write, I sense a "belief" (hit me if I'm wrong) that all external work has to do with struggle or is in some way or another a pain-in-the-ass. That it will disturb your inner alignment, your non-dual state. Or any emotional state.

Why not doing something, or being of service, in a way that suits your inner nature? 

It is my belief that we are meant to express ourselves (create) and experience and expand to explore the infinity of things.

This doesn't mean that all should do the same. We have our unique signature, a unique "feel and taste" to things, if you will.

Follow the desires that spring from your heart, not those that are rooted in a kind of lack or scarcity.

Of course one needs to deviate from the non-dual state in order to engage in the games of life. But you've already been there. You know how to come back "home" to take a "shower". You've transcended the world, you know you are not of this world, but you don't need to sacrifice your life to make known that there is something beyond this earthly plane. It has been done already.  (Thank Goodness.)

Let it shine, baby. Inspire. In your own unique way.

~ Chris

Edited March 2, 2016 by Isle of View

[Nathalie]

@zenny I haven't see the movie, but readen the book and there are a few things which also seem suspect to me :

If someone is feeling good, rich, healthy etc and want more, he still be needy, doesn't he?

So if you follow the secret theory, he should hide it for the universe  otherwise he may lose what he has..

Imagine you go the opposit way instead, I mean, perhaps you observe your inner life (standing in touch with your thoughts and feeling) constantly. You may discover that you don't need so much external goods to live an amazing life. You probably will feel more and more whole and than curriously attract a lot of amazing situations, people and objects, without betraying yourself because in this case, you aren't needy at all.

conclusion : the real goal can only be inside yourself.

So even if you go the way the secret tells you, you also have to observe your thoughts and at least it would bring you nearer to your innerself..

Hope it helps ?

 

[zenny]

@MartineF  thanks for the reply mate. It helps.

[Ben Landrail]

@Sigma excellent question. What Leo "teaches" can be confusing and highly problematic at times, especially when you try to implement it. And I'm absolutely sure 99% of people do not understand the concepts he shares correctly. Hell, I'm perplexed at times myself, and not too infrequently.

But back to the topic. There are several things that I can point out. First of all, the conceptual part. If complete self-transcendence and enlightenment are our true/highest states, then why indeed bother getting involved in anything else? It would be informative to look at a number of advanced meditation/enlightenment students and see what they have done in their lives. I read an article about the scientific research on meditation, and the most advanced guys that took part in the research looked like bums and worked some part-time jobs like bike messengers etc. That is, no external impact on the world. 

Here one can recall the suffering argument. On the one hand, suffering is real and natural, so we have to accept it. But on the other hand, if suffering can be avoided, eliminated or reduced, what reasons do we have to not do this? And it's absolutely obvious that we can do something about it. Just think about small pox and vaccination. If everybody sat meditating in their huts, people'd keep on dying in hundreds of thousands.

There's also the issue of making a living. How on earth will you make a living when all you do is reflect and meditate? Where will you get the motivation and inspiration to do anything except self-work? 

In the end, I think the duality Sigma is talking about is inevitable if you want to be a part of the society, and also if you wnat to enjoy other facets of life except spirituality and being an observer. If you stop doing inner work, you're surely become neurotic very soon and fill your head with tons of rubbish. If you stop caring about the external results, you'll stop producing good results, because why would you? 

I'm afraid I've got more questions than answers, though. But maybe even that helps 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Ben Landrail

[Nathalie]

@zenny you're wellcome.. If you read the book or watch the vid., maybe you can give me a feedback,

it would interess me

[Electron]

@Ben Landrail You got it right. That's the thing. Somehow we need a balance and in a way need to limit the inner work even if that's what we truly want and spend rest of the time in our worldly endeavors even if it brings us no peace of mind and mere suffering. That's the price of massive external impact on the world.

[Ben Landrail]

@Sigma External activity doesn't necessarily bring suffering, it just gives us experiences that are considered somehow inferior. In a sense, after reaching total enlightenment (if it's possible), we stop being human and become something else. Since for most of us,reaching higher levels of spirituality is impossible, undesirable or problematic, I would say that, in general, the goal of inner work has to be eliminating neurosis and needless suffering, increasing awareness and attaining certain other things, while still living fully and contributing to the world as a human being.   

Edited March 4, 2016 by Ben Landrail