Psychedelics - are they "authentic"?

[Forestluv]

Imagine a schizophrenic who was made sane with medication. Who is the "authentic self"?

Crowded rock concerts are a stimulus that alter my brain chemistry causing panic and paranoia. Is this my "authentic self"?

Ingesting molecules within fruits and vegetables affects my brain chemistry and generally promotes a sense of wellbeing. Is this my "authentic self"?

Ingesting molecules within deep fried foods can alter the microbiota composition in my gut. This alters gene expression in the brain which affects my emotions. Is this my "authentic self"?

A traumatic event causes epigenetic changes leading to long-term alterations of gene expression throughout the genome and is associated with elevated levels of cortisol and chronic stress. Is this the "authentic self"?. . . Ahhh, yet the combination of psychological and medicated therapy (including psilocybin) has been shown to reverse those effects - Is this now the "authentic authentic self"?

What is natural? How would you define it?

We are continuous with our environment. We are not separate.

[Neo]

Yes, but I didn't actually say or mean "authentic self". Authentic as in authentic in spiritual or growth / experience. Not fake or bogus in it's effect, or worse still, damaging, not making easy for later meditative progress, it hints on this in the link I posted above which gives various different perspectives, it does seem possibly if done improperly.

 

PsiloPutty, I've read that twice, it's mind blowing if a little scary.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Neo

[pluto]

I recently gained some information i had forgotten about. Drugs including Psychedelics/Hallucinogens especially when abused after "You get the message" affect the psyche of the individual and can reverse individuals process of spiritual evolution. It has to do with the Astral Body. Let me explain

The Astral body (spirit - electrons) can only be harmed by two things: Drugs and Vibrations by certain kinds of noise. (Heavy Traffic/Industrials) being one of the worst. (I will make a whole topic on Astral body, Higher-Self and Noise.)

It must be understood that they have an influence that is totally against Nature. They remove the Astral body to another sphere where it should not be. The Astral body should be either in a physical body or with its Higher-self, of which it is a part.

When drugged, an individual’s Astral body is as though asleep experiencing artificial sensations that completely distort his or her judgement. It is in the same situation as a physical body is during an important surgical operation. If you like, it’s like a tool that we bend or break by using it incorrectly or for a task for which it was not intended.

According to the length of time that a person is under the influence of drugs, his or her Astral body is going to decline or, more exactly, it is going to become saturated with false data. Recovery for the Astral body can take several lifetimes with heavy abuse.

Another way of example is that drugs prematurely vibrate the astral body out of its physical body without naturally developing an alignment of the individual which can cause all sorts of disruptions and distortions. If the ability is not mastered endogenously it can create great confusion in the psyche.

Now it is unknown the effects of each and how much damage although i can state myself i clearly see now how much drugs even when used far less then the typical "abuse" rate have effected my spiritual awareness only now that i have taken a break from indulging in the socially expected life even among actualized people/groups as i am mostly fasting on water, raw fruit juice and spending time in nature, meditating ect.. i am starting to clear up again and remember what i had forgotten and seeing how almost everything we do today has potential to blind and trap you in loops if you are not careful although even when you think you are careful you can easily slip and trick yourself if you are taking drugs or partaking in mindless loops regardless of meditation or self work.

If you meditate effectively without any of these distractions you wont ever need to as your vibration will be naturally just as high. Experiencing them once or twice is no harm but anymore you are only fooling yourself into further blindness from absolute truth and universal clarity especially when you already "know" better.

2c

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by pluto

[Forestluv]

55 minutes ago, Neo said:

Yes, but I didn't actually say or mean "authentic self". Authentic as in authentic in spiritual or growth / experience. Not fake or bogus in it's effect, or worse still, damaging, not making easy for later meditative progress, it hints on this in the link I posted above which gives various different perspectives, it does seem possibly if done improperly.

 

PsiloPutty, I've read that twice, it's mind blowing if a little scary.

It makes no difference. The post is the same. Just remove "self".

How can an experience be "fake" in it's effect?

The concepts of "authentic spiritual growth" and "meditative progress" is part of the dream within The Game. Just like concepts of income growth and career progress. It is seeking something within a dream reality. Going to a meditation retreat is going to a meditation retreat. Just like going bowling is going bowling. All the meanings and comparisons are within The Game of a dream reality.

Your dream is determined by your terms "authentic", "fake", "bogus", "damaging", "easy" and "improperly".  It's all a story you tell yourself and that you are attached to. I've been strongly attached to stories and know how strong they are. Psychedelics destroys stories.

Psychedelics can give a person a very different perspective of The Game. It is like living your whole life in a city and one day going to a mountain top and looking down on the city. Psychedelics are the most powerful perspective tool to me. I learned more during my first trip than in 20 years of meditation.

And everything I've written is part of my conceptual dream. We are both right and both wrong.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Make sure to give yourself some space in between psychedelics.  It's not good to do them all the time.  You want to have bursts of doing psychedelics rather than making it a consistent habit.  Psychedelics are like cleaning yourself out.  You don't want to do that too much or you're gonna screw yourself up with it.  That's the best way to look at psychedelics.  

Doing bursts of psychedelics caused me distress. I've done better using psychedelics as a consistent habit every two weeks.

For me, psychedelics are not like cleaning myself out. It is like dissolving the story that defines my self.

There are an infinite number of ways to look at psychedelics. "Best" is a relative term.

[Neo]

Thank you for all the comments - very interesting. Serotoninluv, I can assure you I haven't "projected"  anything at all as all I have done is ask a question in a very open, even "feminine" way, and so there is nothing to project. The link which I asked people to comment on, I paste the part I was referring to here:

"Herein lies a sticky situation when applying psychedelics as tools for spiritual development: repeatedly using them for the ‘cerebral big-bang’ effect, can cultivate the ‘perception’ of development while only re-enforcing the need to continue taking psychedelics in order to maintain that (potentially) false perception.

Thus, simply taking psychedelics and having the big trip does not create spiritual maturity in a person (though it may lead one into believing that such maturity has been gained). Spiritual maturity requires a regular process or practice of some type to bring the essence of wisdom that a psychedelic experience offers into one’s life as a whole.

If spiritual maturity is what one is seeking in psychedelic experiences, successful integration is key. This means taking time before hand and afterwards to allow the perspectives obtained within such an experience to sink in. This means that before telling everyone about what happened in the experience or taking more psychedelics, one allows what was unlocked within the psychedelic experience to be held in one’s mind until the time that it becomes a natural expression of one’s self. For some this may be a few days, for others it might be an entire lifetime.

It is possible to help the process of applying the insights of a psychedelic experience into one’s life as a whole. The most important factor in helping this along, as far as I have found, is cultivating a daily ‘spiritual’ practice of personal value.

“Spiritual practice” means anything that brings awareness into a sense of being connected with a deeper, more mindful expression of one’s self. “As a whole” means the insights obtained in a psychedelic experience are applied to help cultivate mental-emotional wellbeing, physical health, socio-economic stability, self-awareness, compassion, empathy, creativity, clarity, honesty, etc., in whatever way expresses the individual’s honest (as in unpostured or unguarded) self.

At this point, it seems pretty clear to me that unless the grand experiences of psychedelics are applied into life in a way that unlocks one’s ability to perceive the beauty and fullness of the ordinary, day-to-day moments (outside of the trip), their benefit as a tool for spiritual maturity is being wasted. Thus, coming back to the discussion of repeatedly getting on and off the stone, the effort to keep going back, over and over again, with the hopes getting the next big mystical experience, as if it will tell you something new, when the previous one hasn’t even been integrated, is escapism at best. And at worst, an unconscious ego pattern to self-justify illusions of spiritual maturity and grandeur."

[Forestluv]

@Neo There are countless terms. "Spiritual Maturity" is also part of The Game. Just like "Mature Love", "Career Maturity", "Emotional Maturity", "Spiritual Maturity" and on and on. . . It's all part of a conceptual reality with meaning, definitions and rules. 

"At this point, it seems pretty clear to me that unless the grand experiences of psychedelics are applied into life in a way that unlocks one’s ability to perceive the beauty and fullness of the ordinary, day-to-day moments (outside of the trip), their benefit as a tool for spiritual maturity is being wasted."

That is a story the author tells himself and others. It is one perspective of an infinite number of perspectives.  It is part of "The Game".  His terms "grand", "beauty", "fullness", "ordinary". "benefit" and "wasted". A moonlit walk along the beach is not beautiful, serene, peaceful, etc. It just IS. Just like a duck taking a crap just IS. Just like a blogger writing about "Spiritual Maturity" just IS. Interpretations of value are added and there are an infinite number of interpretations. 

And what I wrote just IS another story.