Psychedelics - are they "authentic"?

[Neo]

Are they fruiting yet, or still colonizing?

It's at the very early stage, only just inoculated. Thanks for taking an interest in that. I'm actually a home brewer, so I have a skill in the sterilisation and attention to detail.

[Leo Gura]

It's very easy to authenticate: try them yourself and you will see what is real and what is unreal.

Just be sure you are ready to see the truth. All your pet theories will be utterly destroyed if you start to tango with psychedelics. You will experience mindfucks that leave you plastered on the floor, foaming at the mouth, calling for Mommy. And you will still only have scratched the surface of what consciousness is capable of. After all, consciousness does create the whole universe, so you should expect it to be a force beyond all equals.

[PsiloPutty]

5 hours ago, Neo said:

 

 

It's at the very early stage, only just inoculated. Thanks for taking an interest in that. I'm actually a home brewer, so I have a skill in the sterilisation and attention to detail.

Ahhhh, a zymergist! I was into that about 20 years ago and had a blast with it. Big glass carboys, tubing, air bubblers, wort on the stove. Super fun stuff, man. I wasted 5 gallons of delicious wort one time and turned it all into pickle juice. I remember the fermentation was going at a frenetic rate, and I just knew that it couldn't be yeast in there doing it that quickly. At least not the yeast that I had pitched!   

Anyway, yeah, have fun growing your cubes. I'm assuming you're doing cubensis. Are you doing PF Tek or a growkit that you bought? It's fun watching that pretty mycelium spread around on your grains or rice flour. I hope you're enjoying the process. 

Do you have your first experience planned out yet as far as your dose and where you're going to do it? I had it all planned weeks in advance. 

[Nahm]

On 2/16/2018 at 9:10 AM, Neo said:

Psychedelics - are they "authentic"? Yes. They are the “red pill”. No joke at all. 

You join a club of "happy" people, you all meet up and all stand one one by one to say how happy you are and why. When it's your turn, you stand up and say, "I'm happy - I take Valium! In fact, I took a Valium and a bunch of other drugs just before I got here! I expect I'll be really miserable later!"

Psychadelics, with a proper foundation in practices, and a lifestyle of health & well being, can reveal our deeper Self deceptions which otherwise left unnoticed can lead to a relative need for Valium and or Viagra. 

So, is it "authentic" and more importantly, are the "benefits" authentic. Can you reach the same end point as meditation AND not affect the possibility of making further progress with meditation alone. 

I’ve practiced daily meditation for 23 years, and taken around 20 trips. Do both, in a well thought out, well researched order. 

Is it like taking soooo much VIAGRA, for years, and you're expected to perform for your Mrs, and you haven't got any VIAGRA and it's freezing cold, and there's a lot on your're mind, in fact, you have a headache and you're tired.

No. It’s nothing like that. It’s like waking up every morning, and being fully aware no one just woke up, and every sensation is a dream / illusion. That sleep, and awake, and Nahm, and the world, are illusionary, and there is no thing that was born, and no thing that dies. No headache, no tired, no concern, nothing on your mind. Then you move through your day with clarity. Aware that everything experienced is completely relative to your person. Every sight and every sound, every word someone speaks, every song you hear, every question every answer, every appearance - all relativity to your person is revealed - you’d see why anyone is saying whatever they’re saying, doing whatever they’re doing, wanting what they’re wanting. Imagine 7 billion dominos, all moving in perfect relative unison, and one day, one domino realizes this, and removes it’s self from the relativity, and realizes the nature of people / dominos, is that each one, is all of them. There’s no words for the revealed transparency of the appearance, and the truth. It’s not communicable. Only direct experience will do. 

 

 

 

[Ayilton]

On 2/16/2018 at 7:27 PM, PsiloPutty said:

I don't recall who I got the metaphor from, but for me, the psychedelic experience was like in The Wizard of Oz when the curtain was suddenly pulled open, revealing a weak and ridiculous little man who'd had everyone hoodwinked into believing in this frightening, larger-than-life persona, providing them all with The Truth of life. They then realized that it was all a sham, and they'd been buying a lie the entire time.

Society, culture, governments and their laws are the sad little wizard, scamming us out of our individuality and our ability to think critically. For me, psychedelics opened the curtain and showed me how tragically shameful it is to go through life believing that they're telling us the truth in how we should live. I learned that the people making the rules were/are just as lost in their lives as I was in mine, and that took their power away. 

 

You explained it perfectly bro 

[Faceless]

Are we individuals at all???

 I question this. Individuals stand alone. A true individual sees themself as individual/whole, not meaning separate/divided but representing the whole of man/woman/the world. An individual is not afraid to be empty. Doesn’t conform to patterns in becoming and not becoming. Doesn’t get caught in the pattern of imitation. Negates the danger of disorder in living. 

A true individual is one who becomes free of fragmentation/thought. One who is free of demand, effort, volition. 

 

[tsuki]

@Faceless

Any individual sees himself as an individual.
A group sees itself as an individual despite being made of individuals and being among other groups.
Once the perspective shifts - things join just to break apart a moment later.

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Any individual sees himself as an individual.

Let’s start with a line at a time?

what do we mean by this? 

Any individual sees himself as an individual.

[tsuki]

@Faceless Groundlessness. Paradox. A Cycle. This is thought. A set of mirrors reflecting each other to form a tunnel.

I never took any psychedelics so I'm talking out of pure ignorance. I see them as something that shows the tunnel. It may go anywhere it pleases. Once you integrate that into your being, you just go.
The tunnel is the self and so is the society. They are made of each other. The self thinks what society taught it, the society is made of selves. The self sees itself as separate, so does the society.

Edited February 19, 2018 by tsuki

[Faceless]

18 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Faceless Groundlessness. Paradox. A Cycle. This is thought. A set of mirrors reflecting each other to form a tunnel.

I never took any psychedelics so I'm talking out of pure ignorance. I see them as something that shows the tunnel. It may go anywhere it pleases. Once you integrate that into your being, you just go.
The tunnel is the self and so is the society. They are made of each other. The self thinks what society taught it, the society is made of selves. The self sees itself as separate, so does the society.

I understand...we don’t need to take psychedelics to see what is happening in thought/the self....If we undertand ourselves deeply it becomes very very clear, without any question. But this must be seen by ones self. ?

 

So it’s obvious that individuality as the word implies today is an illusion

Original usage for that word individual was meant to imply indivisible, whole, not seperate. Interesting huh? 

And this is what I meant to go into on behalf of individuality. Wasn’t questioning psychedelics although I do often, but was rather pointing to the where the movement of motive to take such a stimulate comes from. It is in this sense of individuality/the center/the self that arises this demand of self sustainment. 

Do you see that participation in the demand through motive, effort, will is always a movement of thought and therefore becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And that by engaging in such a movement, being a movement of fragmentation can only lead to further fragmentation.

Do you see that this illusion as individuality fuels fragmentation and that no matter what fragmentation can never be integrated to wholeness? 

I hope you the significance of this?

 

 

[tsuki]

18 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Do you see that participation in the demand through motive, effort, will is always a movement of thought and therefore becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And that by engaging in such a movement, being a movement of fragmentation can only lead to further fragmentation.

Do you see that this illusion as individuality fuels fragmentation and that no matter what fragmentation can never be integrated to wholeness? 

Sorry, I still see fragmentation as a result of a paradox.
One becomes awakened once the fragmentation tries to fragment itself. Once the self wants to see what itself is. It sees it as a tunnel, a path to go, but the tunnel fragments itself. The cycle cannot contain itself and it explodes. The self sees itself for the paradox it is.

Still, if one can see a path from paradox to fragmentation, then surely one can go from fragmentation to paradox. It goes both ways. Peace.

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Sorry, I still see fragmentation as a result of a paradox.
One becomes awakened once the fragmentation tries to fragment itself. Once the self wants to see what itself is. It sees it as a tunnel, a path to go, but the tunnel fragments itself. The cycle cannot contain itself and it explodes. The self sees itself for the paradox it is.

Still, if one can see a path from paradox to fragmentation, then surely one can go from fragmentation to paradox. It goes both ways. Peace.

Fragmentation can’t see itself as fragmentation. This what u mean? 

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Do you see that participation in the demand through motive, effort, will is always a movement of thought and therefore becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And that by engaging in such a movement, being a movement of fragmentation can only lead to further fragmentation.

Do you see that this illusion as individuality fuels fragmentation and that no matter what fragmentation can never be integrated to wholeness? 

Do you see what I was implying here? 

[Faceless]

@tsuki

what is it that sees fragmentation??? 

Very interesting

Edited February 19, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

We have to see that fragmentation is contradiction. Can that which is contradicting get out of the pattern of fragmentation???

[tsuki]

32 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Do you see that this illusion as individuality fuels fragmentation and no matter what fragmentation can never be integrated to wholeness? 

There is no answer to the question "Who am I?" that prevents it from asking it again.
Who am I?
I am the thing that does not know what it is.
You can only answer that question by forgetting that you don't know.

[Neo]

On ‎17‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 2:04 PM, PsiloPutty said:

Do you have your first experience planned out yet as far as your dose and where you're going to do it? I had it all planned weeks in advance. 

PsiloPutty, if you have any resources or can tell me about your first shroom planning I would be very interested to find out. I have no idea what the first dose should be for meditative work, I'm not planning on near death experience! Also, I expect I can goo-gle it, but what to do with a clutch of shrooms, can they be frozen, and no, I don't know a single sole on this planet who needs shrooms! lol

Edited February 22, 2018 by Neo

[Neo]

If anyone is interested in the original question posed by this thread, I found this article which seems to nail it (but what do I know),

but what I mean it seems a lot more grounded which sometimes you need between listening to Leos videos> no offense Leo but the Life is a dream video is so off the wall, I had to check my head was still screwed on after listening to it.

 

http://psypressuk.com/2014/06/23/spiritual-growth-and-psychedelics-2/

[Nahm]

On 2/16/2018 at 9:10 AM, Neo said:

Psychedelics - are they "authentic"?

 

You join a club of "happy" people, you all meet up and all stand one one by one to say how happy you are and why. When it's your turn, you stand up and say, "I'm happy - I take Valium! In fact, I took a Valium and a bunch of other drugs just before I got here! I expect I'll be really miserable later!"

So, is it "authentic" and more importantly, are the "benefits" authentic. Can you reach the same end point as meditation AND not affect the possibility of making further progress with meditation alone.

Is it like taking soooo much VIAGRA, for years, and you're expected to perform for your Mrs, and you haven't got any VIAGRA and it's freezing cold, and there's a lot on your're mind, in fact, you have a headache and you're tired.

 

 

 

@Neo. Psychedelics are like no other thing. I assume they are not like viagra and Valium. Of course you should try them, responsibly and safely. If you are seeking enlightenment, use any resource. Heed @Leo Gura‘s warning. Psychedelics are uncompromising. They’ll rip every concept right out of you. Start small. Slow & steady is best. Allow ample time for the insights to integrate. Good luck and have fun man! Don’t forget a report

[PsiloPutty]

6 hours ago, Neo said:

PsiloPutty, if you have any resources or can tell me about your first shroom planning I would be very interested to find out. I have no idea what the first dose should be for meditative work, I'm not planning on near death experience! Also, I expect I can goo-gle it, but what to do with a clutch of shrooms, can they be frozen, and no, I don't know a single sole on this planet who needs shrooms! lol

I'll copy and paste something I posted here last week, as a bunch of it is applicable to you, too. Do not freeze them; the ice crystals will ruin the cell structure and turn them to slime. Get yourself a cheapie food dehydrator at Walmart and dry the whole mushrooms until they are as dry as a cracker. You want them dry enough that they break very easily, without any bending needed. Cracker dry. They're then ready to use or store. To store, just get an air-tight Mason jar (more than one jar, if you have a big crop), put a dessicant pack in it and store it in a cool, dark place for up to a year or two. As far as dose, here comes the pasted post from last week. Take what you can use from it.......

Yeah, if 2g didn't do much, I'd just say the heck with it and go with the famed "Heroic Dose" which is 5g dried, but if 4g sounds less frightening, then do that. Whatever method you use, do it after fasting for 6 hours. Food in your stomach will delay the effects and increase your chance of feeling nauseated or throwing up.

Some folks love doing mushroom tea, but it never works as well for me as actually consuming the mushrooms. I got fed up with the tea method after raising the dose again and again and still not getting the effect of eating them, so I'm done with that intake method, but there's not much to it: heat up 1 or 2 cups of water (however much you'd like to drink), put the hot water in a coffee mug, finely grind up your bone-dry mushrooms in a coffee grinder until it's like baby powder, empty out a couple regular tea bags and then add the mushroom powder to the empty bags and let them steep in your mug of hot water for 20 minutes, squeezing the bags from time to time to ensure that the actives in the mushrooms are getting into the water.....and drink it. That's straight mushroom tea. 

The method I've found to work better than any other is to grind up the mushrooms as described before, put them in an empty coffee mug, add 2 ounces of real lemon juice, stir it up a few times while 20 minutes passes.....and drink it all down at the 20-minute mark. This is called the Lemon Tek method. It's nasty-lookin' shit, with a taste to match, and you might have to do it little by little to keep from gagging, which is why I keep the volume of what I need to drink to a minimum. The lemon juice activates or potentiates the psilocybin, making the trip start faster than other consumption methods. It's thought that the citric acid in lemon juice converts the psilocybin into psilocin, a process which would happen in your body anyway, even without the lemon juice, but since the lemon juice does it while the mushrooms are in the mug, your body doesn't need to bother with it, thus making the effects appear faster. 

I always do my psychedelic journeys alone at home. If you have a very trusted friend who's willing to sit in a different room and only tend to you if you call out for them, that's OK too. You definitely want some privacy, though. I talk outloud, chant, sing and all sorts of shit that would be disturbing to a sober person in the house, especially if they're unfamiliar with seeing someone on a therapeutic dose of psilocybin. Having a newbie tripsitter is NOT advised. It would be a new experience for you both, and you want at least one of you to have an idea of what's going on. 

"What to do" during a trip: I like to meditate in the dark after I drink my mushrooms, and I keep doing that even while I can feel the trip starting. Don't worry about not getting deep enough into meditation; if you're like me, you'll be too jazzed up to get as deep as during a regular meditation session. The point is just to calm your mind in preparation for the experience. When it becomes difficult to continue meditating after the trip starts, because of what I'm seeing (eyes always closed), hearing and feeling, I talk to the mushroom, expressing my gratitude, asking for its help, its guidance and frankly, its mercy. Might be kooky to do that, but I'm not at all convinced that mushrooms aren't a doorway into another dimension, accompanied by some kind of alien intellect. 

It's not necessary to believe what I believe as far as the alien intelligence goes, but you DO have to surrender yourself to it and acknowledge that you're in the direct presence of something that has it in its power to beat you up mentally if you're too cocky about it and try to exert control over it. That's what I like about the higher doses - they automatically put you in the passenger seat. At low doses, your ego is very much intact and it is petrified to relinquish control. Low doses can be a lot more challenging than higher doses for that very reason; your ego can fight and kick around and cause something of a rotten trip. Your ego is ushered into a waiting room in some ways during a 5g+ trip, and you are more apt to just lay there and surrender, which is when the mushroom can stretch out and do the driving. 

That's not to say that you for sure won't have challenging periods on a therapeutic dose; you sure may, but it's all a part of it. It's Yin and Yang. When I have a rough time, I fall back on Terence McKenna's advice of sitting up in bed and chanting or singing. It oxygenates your brain and can really free up a mental log jam. The last trip I had, I got stuck early on, started chanting and even after I felt better, I kept up with the chanting for 2 full hours because it felt so good and needed for some reason. I didn't know from one moment to the next what sounds were going to come out of my mouth. It was as liberating and cathartic as anything I've done in my almost 50 years on earth. 

Anyway, your fear is normal and GOOD. It signifies that you're serious about it and that you understand that you'll have to drop the reins and surrender to something very different than you've ever experienced. Again, you will still be you afterward. Even while it's happening, you'll still have the ability to go to the restroom, drink water and such, although you should stay in bed as much as possible. If you're like most people, the trip comes in waves. There will be times when the surf's up and all you can do is stay put and absorb what it's showing you, but there will also be low-tide times when you can go pee, drink some water or whatever for a couple minutes before the tide returns. I usually have 3 solid hours of heavy tripping before it begins to leave, but don't plan on leaving the house or doing anything too normal for 6 hours.

If you can summon the courage to do this, it'll likely rank among the most important and profound activities you have ever engaged in. The potential for personal growth in such a short timeframe is completely unparalleled. All it takes is true courage, curiosity and an explorer's sense of adventure.