Self Image Paradox

[Truth]

9 minutes ago, Faceless said:

With the self/ego being the result of fragmentation/duality/measure and wholeness being immeasurable, how can fragmentation be integrated into wholeness???

Do we see the falsness of this? 

Do we see that where ever there is fragmentation only leads to further fragmentation? 

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Truth

[Faceless]

Lololoolololoookollkollok

that is very funny ? 

but that doesn’t mean it’s incorrect 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

17 hours ago, Faceless said:

Why would one de-center the center after seeing its falseness?? 

 

You can't shed the tentacles of Ego by insight alone.   

"In reality, acquiring self-consciousness means long and hard work.  How can a man agree to this work if he thinks he already possesses the very thing which is promised him as the result of long and hard work?  Naturally a man will not begin this work and will not consider it necessary until he becomes convinced that he possesses neither self-consciousness nor all that is connected with it, that is, unity or individuality, permanent 'I' and will."  -- P.D. Ouspensky

Edited February 15, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

 

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You can't shed the tentacles of Ego by insight alone.   

 

First off what do U mean by insight ? Make sure our meanings match 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@Joseph Maynor

i would also see what the self/ego is before I even asked the question of if there could be a gettng rid of ‘it’ or not...know what I mean ?

Edited February 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@Joseph Maynor

what do u mean by ‘acquiring’ self-consciousness? Just so we’re clear. 

I have never read any past theory’s so I don’t know where he was coming from. Do you? 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, MM1988 said:

I dont understand how building up a positive self image can make you more confident and give you self worth.

What if you think very good of you and then something happens and you dont hold up to your high standard. Wouldnt you get depressed? Wouldnt that hurt the credibility of your self image? Doesnt life then become a constant strugge to validate your positive self image?

I dont get it, this is paradoxical to me.

What if you omit the words self image, self worth, high standard...and just say, I believe in myself. No matter what I will face, I believe in myself. 

If you had a compass in your pocket, and went into the woods, and were really in the beauty of nature, but after a while, you felt you were lost. A little panicky. Maybe some anxiety building. But then you thought, I’m not lost, and you just sat down, breathed, and looked at your compass. 

I say we all have that internal compass. If we start to ‘get a little lost in the woods’, we can just stop, sit down, and breath, and our center will always tell us which way to go. The trouble starts when we blow past it.

[Faceless]

8 hours ago, MM1988 said:

I dont understand how building up a positive self image can make you more confident and give you self worth.

What if you think very good of you and then something happens and you dont hold up to your high standard. Wouldnt you get depressed? Wouldnt that hurt the credibility of your self image? Doesnt life then become a constant strugge to validate your positive self image?

I dont get it, this is paradoxical to me.

Your on to it. Having any form of image is forming an illusion to escape the insecurity you already feel. And yes creating another image is setting you up for further perpetual conflict and suffering. Not only to you personaly but also with others around you. Images in relationship be it with yourself and others are very destructive. 

If there is no image what so ever then there’s no measure being established to invoke depression or gratification in validation. Measure does not need to be established psychologically. It only has its place in practical affairs. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, Faceless said:

 

First off what do U mean by insight ? Make sure our meanings match 

What do you mean by insight?

[Joseph Maynor]

16 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You can't shed the tentacles of Ego by insight alone.   

"In reality, acquiring self-consciousness means long and hard work.  How can a man agree to this work if he thinks he already possesses the very thing which is promised him as the result of long and hard work?  Naturally a man will not begin this work and will not consider it necessary until he becomes convinced that he possesses neither self-consciousness nor all that is connected with it, that is, unity or individuality, permanent 'I' and will."  -- P.D. Ouspensky

I wanna discuss this more.   There seems to be a paradox between accepting reality and thinking we can change reality.

[Faceless]

31 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I wanna discuss this more.   There seems to be a paradox between accepting reality and thinking we can change reality.

What do you mean accepting reality?? 

The reality perceived by you can be altered. One who’s thought is in order has a very different reality than one whos thought is disorderly. 

But reality as in of itself is independent of the observer. Any view you have of reality is based on relationships, associations physicaly and mentally/thought...We can’t know it or grasp it by conceptualization. Our reality is dependent on how we interpret and what impressions are reflected back onto it. 

 

Does that make sense to you ?

Edited February 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

What do you mean accepting reality?? 

The reality perceived by you can be altered. One who’s thought is in order has a very different reality than one whos thought is disorderly. 

But reality as in of itself is independent of the observer. Any view you have of reality is based on relationships, associations physicaly and mentally/thought...We can’t know it or grasp it by conceptualization. Our reality is dependent on how we interpret and what impressions are reflected back into it. 

Accepting reality in the sense of being it and not trying to exercise control over it.

[Faceless]

That’s what I mean.. the you that is believed in distorts actually reality. You can’t change truth/reality. Truth/reality is of itself. 

The u who controls is the distortion. 

[Faceless]

Fragmentation can’t be integrated into wholeness 

 

[MisterMan]

On 2/15/2018 at 4:43 AM, MM1988 said:

I dont understand how building up a positive self image can make you more confident and give you self worth.

What if you think very good of you and then something happens and you dont hold up to your high standard. Wouldnt you get depressed? Wouldnt that hurt the credibility of your self image? Doesnt life then become a constant strugge to validate your positive self image?

I dont get it, this is paradoxical to me.

Pride is a wrong relationship to have with value. Meaning any values that you hold, you begin to relate to the value through your own pride. Which is simply a mindstate, so getting attached to it is pretty much destines you to fall off whatever you're doing. 

It's one thing that i am looking at at the moment. 

[Joseph Maynor]

6 hours ago, Faceless said:

That’s what I mean.. the you that is believed in distorts actually reality. You can’t change truth/reality. Truth/reality is of itself. 

The u who controls is the distortion. 

I agree with this.  Or to sound less clingy and belief-oriented -- I should say that this resonates with me.  It resonates very much with how I think about these matters too.  The Ego is a belief and most likely false.  Knowing how our ideas have ferreted out on many matters -- it wouldn't surprise me that our cultural beliefs are wrong.  The Egoic Paradigm is simply a philosophy, a belief system, a cultural construction, not different from any other creation like Rock and Roll or Kung Pao Chicken.  Is Kung Pao Chicken objectively better than Beef and Broccoli, well?  Yeah!  No.  It's funny that we think like that with our other paradigms and don't even realize it.  That's why Enlightenment is the eradication of ignorance -- the deepest eradication of ignorance.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

Actual reality is what you guys are, not anything that’s been referred to here. That is all your illusion. 

[Truth]

33 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Actual reality is what you guys are, not anything that’s been referred to here. That is all your illusion. 

"It's all illusion" #problemsolved

[Nahm]

@Truth

A wise man once said....

First time you feel it, it might make you sad
Next time you feel it it might make you mad
But you'll be glad when you've found
The power that makes the world go'round

And it don't take money, don't take fame
Don't need no credit card to ride this train
It's strong and it's sudden - it can be cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life

They say that all in love is fair
but you don't care
But you'll know what to do
When it gets hold of you
And with a little help from above
You feel the power of love
 

[Truth]

15 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Truth

A wise man once said....

First time you feel it, it might make you sad
Next time you feel it it might make you mad
But you'll be glad when you've found
The power that makes the world go'round

And it don't take money, don't take fame
Don't need no credit card to ride this train
It's strong and it's sudden - it can be cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life

They say that all in love is fair
but you don't care
But you'll know what to do
When it gets hold of you
And with a little help from above
You feel the power of love