What to do in dark night of the soul?

[Buba]

17 hours ago, cetus56 said:

@Buba Here's a picture I took that represents passing through "The Gate of Fear". I know exactly what you mean b-c I've been there. I can't tell you how many times I've come up against the fear and turned away. But that's what builds the trust and faith within us. I alone would have never passed through the gate.

İ love you, Cetus.

[cetus]

@Buba Right back at ya. 

[Samuel Rdz]

On 2/13/2018 at 5:39 AM, Buba said:

So after meditating for 4-5 months (20 minutes everyday) and doing very small self-inquiry my mental state started to deteriorate. I almost stopped anti-depressants (with the advice of doctor) and thought the deterioration was linked to this issue. But now I see I may have Dark Night of the Soul. Because I feel horrible emptiness and meaninglessness. What can I do to escape this state or should I just wait, it can pass only by itself? To be honest I dont want enlightenment, I just wanted to improve my psychology. I read reports of people who have been stuck in Dark Night of the Soul for years. It is scary. Because I have attachment to my loved ones and to life. I just want to live an ordinary life. Now I dont know what to do. I am not even sure if I should rely on spirituality or on science (medicine). I have zero motivation, bad appetite. I searched google but did not find practical advice what to do in such a situation.

The reason why I dont want to chase enlightenment, because I am afraid of being stuck in the middle. I would prefer mundane life over such a risk. I cant even meditate because I think it may make my state worse. I am so desperate right now. The only thing I do, I try to be in the now. And I try not to follow my thoughts and bring my focus to something. 

All this part of your message comes entirely from that part of your mind that is dying (ego). Somehow you threatened too serious its thought system and you realized in a very profound way the illusion of that being (in which you were identified). Your words are the words of that false self (in this message) as he know that the end is imminent and as you are identified completely all life with it, you feel that sensation of disappearing (because ego is nothing but an idea, that you already uncover), your pain comes from that identification, you are in a moment of start getting a new thought system where the Real Self can understand His reality as Wholeness and become who He Is. The attempt to be happy in a "mundane life" is the attempt of that false self of becoming unconscious again, you don't want at all that "mundane life" since was made from that false self so that you can never become happy, what you want is not feeling that fear! what you may imagine as becoming happy in that "mundane life" (wife, children, etc) is a projection of that false self to perpetuate the illusion of itself.

The enormous fear that you have for enlightenment is an other projection to a specific state of the mind where there is such a pain, however what you call enlightenment is a state of no fear. And your fear for meditate is again an other projection of that state of mind that you want to avoid (intense and insane fear). I've been there, is such big and freighting that is almost impossible to see a way of leaving, but that state is not real (not just words but a fact) you need to face that fear not with your strengths but you need to train your mind so that you can realize once you enter that cave that there is not such state of pain as you were thinking, at this point you won't be able to do it just facing it, as I said you need to train yourself since all is about what you believe, all are projections about what you think in your mind, you are just starting your Journey, but you must know that is completely safe. I understand when you say that you won't feel stuck, I have news: the stuck that you talked that is what you fear is where you are.

So the best thing you can do now is to start trusting that your are completely protected, this won't come just for saying it, you will need an experience of that trust, little by little, you are afraid since you believe that you have no choice but fight against that darkness, however the good news are that you have not!, you just need to work with the part of your mind that is believing is in danger so that the fear become less an less (since in the end the fear does not exist, is your own creation, but again you need realize that not just hear it).

You have not choice about becoming enlightened or not, whatever you may believe about that word, the ego or your current suffering self is not what you are, that should be understood first so that you can start trusting in your process. If the mind is very afraid however you can go and take pills, therapy or whatever makes you feel better, the real practice is not to fight but realize that there is no need for that.

There is no such thing as a dark night of the  soul, the soul or Spirit never has one since He is in a constant state of bliss (as you but you have not yet realized it) the dark night is for the "ego" and while you stay there identified with that idea of yourself that night will feel as real, is as simple as choosing again not to be that self. But again, the important part is train your mind to find the new thought system. You must know that even if you think a mundane life is cool, you will always be needing to face death in the end for your life, we must be prepared from now to undo the false idea of our self so that we can have never nothing to fear. Little people have that great opportunity that you have, big fear is because the false self is dying and with that you will become free, real free and see what is life for real.

One of the greatest teachings that goes directly without compromising or playing with the ego is A Course In Miracles, this path help you go slowly erasing the idea of fear little by little, but there is many more teachings out side that can be used. Don't be afraid because soon you will know your self, and you don't need to stay in the dark night any longer if you don't want.

You will understand soon all the trick, and be prepared since a big laugh will come to you just when you see and feel that what you believe was never what was real. We were wrong in almost everything and that's great!

Be brave, not because there is some monster there but because there are not.

 I'm in the path too, with you !

Samuel

 

[PsiloPutty]

This is a great thread. Lots of wisdom. Lots o' love.

[Buba]

Do you take tranquilizators (benzodiazepines) for insomnia or anxiety? Being in the now and mindful brings a lot of trash.

[Buba]

I am so surprised people say, Enlightenment is bliss. It is actually horror. Yesterday at night in my bed I had glimpse of it.

I try to be in the now and in a relaxed state. It produces anxiety, nausea and sometimes even involuntary convulsions of my body. Yesterday at night I relaxed in my bed and settled in the now. My body convulsed several times and I dry heaved. Then after some minutes I saw that I am a screen, not a person. It shattered my vision about life. Everything lost its value. It was terrible. I held my life with my two hands tightly, so it did not disappear completely. I was very scared and depressed. I wanted to think about future to make myself motivated, but I could not. There was only now. I saw that future does not exist. I could not sleep, but finally I fell asleep. Now I am back to normal. I dont know if I should stop meditation or not. I am definitely not ready for the Truth.

[SoonHei]

@Buba yes

I had this too

I didn't know about spiritual work or enlightenment then but I didn't get the feeling of the screen

However I saw the life in the now

All meaning lost

It was quite different and shocking

 

But look, both in mine and your case, that episode ends. It will because you and I are resisting to it very intensely in that moment

 

Kinda like omg, what have I done / wished

It basically saw us for what we really are, torn from all the sane civil human beings that we think we are

Mine happened after I had taken a mild convinince store synthetic weed . Took a shower and as I was getting out of the shower my.whole view changed. Saw myself in the mirror and was like wtf is this? I have body parts a penis n effin balls. I drive a car n go to work n deal with people, customer service blah blah and here I have this effin penis, I use it to pee  have sex etc

 

In a nutshell, that was all that my mind was exploring in that state

Aka, all will/hope for future lost. Didn't know what to do or how I will get up the next day go to work or whatever

But yeah, after a sleep, that ended

They key is to surrender in that moment and accept it

All of what you think of your life right now that you wanted so badly is something you have created a story and are clinging to it. When it was taken away from you it was as If you don't exist any more and u were dead

 

That's why someone who is going thru a very negative patch of life easily surrenders to it and will enter that state not unknowing you and I did

For them, it's an infinitely better place and full of peace if they were in a depression a moment ago and now it's gone and replaced with this. Their old self has died and they say wow

 And that's their new born state

They don't want that old self you and I wanted because we (thank god) aren't living a very horrible life in our day to day

Meditating with the goal of slow personal improvement and them BAM a glimpse is seen which shakes you up and u want it to end and want ur safety net of accepted reality back

 

Although , in my case. I still associated with my body n felt n walked in it. So unsure if I had what you would call a "glimpse" I recall it like a well remembered dream

 

I didn't see I am the screen or full non dual but all of the meaning of what I thought life is was stipped fully

My knowledge about what things are called, my name, my memories were there but I was like wtf is all this

 

Hopefully that was a glimpse and all I had to do was the opposite which would be to surrender and accept the moment fully (easier said than done from what I hear) and I say this now since I didn't know when it last happened what Non-duality / awakening / glimpse of truth were. So had nothing to work with.

 

I recall reciting religious verses to try and calm myself and bring me back . Telling that I am on this synthetic weed, and it's just a temporary high

 

But what was scary was this. I was like sure. I am high and what I am experiencing is pretty trippy and fucked up ATM but how can I unsee this! It will still be the truth when I wake up the next day and am back to "normal" but at that time I thought I just couldn't get back to that old normal.. because again, how can I unsee or unlearn what I am seeing right now

 

Yet  when I woke up the next day. I was back to 'reailty" still shaken up but then I was like Woah, that was a werid high state

Started seraching online for similar experience of people from weed and here I am today 

 

 

 

[Buba]

5 hours ago, SoonHei said:

But look, both in mine and your case, that episode ends. It will because you and I are resisting to it very intensely in that moment

 

Kinda like omg, what have I done / wished

It basically saw us for what we really are, torn from all the sane civil human beings that we think we are

Mine happened after I had taken a mild convinince store synthetic weed . Took a shower and as I was getting out of the shower my.whole view changed. Saw myself in the mirror and was like wtf is this? I have body parts a penis n effin balls. I drive a car n go to work n deal with people, customer service blah blah and here I have this effin penis, I use it to pee  have sex etc

Aka, all will/hope for future lost. Didn't know what to do or how I will get up the next day go to work or whatever

But yeah, after a sleep, that ended

They key is to surrender in that moment and accept it

All of what you think of your life right now that you wanted so badly is something you have created a story and are clinging to it. When it was taken away from you it was as If you don't exist any more and u were dead

 

That's why someone who is going thru a very negative patch of life easily surrenders to it and will enter that state not unknowing you and I did

For them, it's an infinitely better place and full of peace if they were in a depression a moment ago and now it's gone and replaced with this. Their old self has died and they say wow

 And that's their new born state

They don't want that old self you and I wanted because we (thank god) aren't living a very horrible life in our day to day

Meditating with the goal of slow personal improvement and them BAM a glimpse is seen which shakes you up and u want it to end and want ur safety net of accepted reality back

I recall reciting religious verses to try and calm myself and bring me back . Telling that I am on this synthetic weed, and it's just a temporary high

 

But what was scary was this. I was like sure. I am high and what I am experiencing is pretty trippy and fucked up ATM but how can I unsee this! It will still be the truth when I wake up the next day and am back to "normal" but at that time I thought I just couldn't get back to that old normal.. because again, how can I unsee or unlearn what I am seeing right now

Yes I resisted because I had read horrible reports of people who ended up mentally crippled in this path, so I could not surrender.

I have been suffering from OCD and mild depression for more than 10 years and last year started to meditate and be mindful in daily life to cure myself. But as you said what I wished, but what I got. So it seems, meditation does not cure depression, it takes you beyond the existence of depression. Actually it takes you where there is no existence and non-existence.

I am unhappy, but I still like my ego. I like being a doer.

Some part of me wants to continue, some part wants to stop.

I also recite "la ilahe illallah" to calm myself, although I am an atheist. 

[SoonHei]

53 minutes ago, Buba said:

I also recite "la ilahe illallah" to calm myself, although I am an atheist.

<3 

you being an atheist does not change the truth does it?

 

and there is nothing wrong with the ego

you just need to bring about changes in your life so that you come out of that depression otherwise what is there about your ego to like... if you arent happy in it?

i guess you mean to say comparing that state which you happened upon, you would choose your current ego-state life

 

but once again, as per what you said, you have OCD and mild depression... 

ACCEPT IT

AND DEMAND FOR CHANGE

DESIRE FOR CHANGE IN YOUR LIFE

TAKE ACTION TO GET IT

BELIEVE IN IT

 

the meditation is the other side wherein you destroy your ego completely and are then living the life from TRUTH in which ALL that happens (without exception) is accepted and is okay.

[Matt8800]

@Buba Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha is a book that talks about how to get through the dark night.

There are insights that are needed to get to the next stage, which takes more meditating and contemplating. 

I went through my first dark night stage about a year ago. I finally realized if nothing objectively matters, my own suffering didnt matter. I completely accepted my suffering and applied equanimity to negative thoughts/emotions that arose. When I did this, a freedom and peace blossomed in me that was far beyond anything I had ever experienced.

Who is suffering? Why does it matter? Contemplate that very carefully.

What is the purpose of life? To embody love, beauty, truth and to be present. Accept your "suffering" and focus on chasing those 4 things.

How can you just reverse out of the dark night and forget the whole thing? You cant because once you see the truth, you cant unsee it. The only path to peace is forward once you have had an initial awakening. That is why people should be careful about the choice to start meditating. Once you make it past the dark night though, you would never want to go back to "normal". 

Saying that you dont want to progress because you dont want to lose the ego is like a 5 year old saying they dont want to grow up because they cant play with their legos anymore. You can still play with your legos as an adult....you just may be interested in other things more.

 

Also, see - https://alohadharma.com/2011/06/12/the-dark-night/ 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Matt8800

[Viking]

maybe try to stop seeking outside sources for help and look inwards for help. all of the answers are within, if you can notice them.

ok, so wtf do i mean by that... sit comfortably and concentrate on your breathing for a few seconds while relaxing the body. then ask yourself, "what can i do to improve my situation" or "what's my problem" or "what am i afraid of and why" any question that YOU feel right. then try to answer those questions. this is the optimal way I think to solve problems, because you know your situation the best.

if you cant come up with questions, still concentrate on your breathing until a thought arises, any thought. if you meditate daily you probably know that feeling of starting to meditate and starting to have thoughts that are not in your control. those thoughts are your connection with your subconscious and it can be really powerful to just see what kind of thoughts arise and go from there. personally this technique helps me to settle any confusion i have in the moment, because the most urgent things pop up into my mind that make up this confusion.

you gotta get to a point where you dont need anyone's help. though it may not be possible for you right now. read books, buy leo's booklist if you havent already, its very good and will get you out of your shit guaranteed.

[Gabriel Antonio]

Are you currently taking medication? 

[Hellspeed]

Entering in the pain of depression until it becomes a physical pain. Physical pain is easier than feeling you lose yourself. 

[Buba]

On 10/1/2018 at 4:31 PM, SoonHei said:

<3 

you being an atheist does not change the truth does it?

 

and there is nothing wrong with the ego

you just need to bring about changes in your life so that you come out of that depression otherwise what is there about your ego to like... if you arent happy in it?

i guess you mean to say comparing that state which you happened upon, you would choose your current ego-state life

 

but once again, as per what you said, you have OCD and mild depression... 

ACCEPT IT

AND DEMAND FOR CHANGE

DESIRE FOR CHANGE IN YOUR LIFE

TAKE ACTION TO GET IT

BELIEVE IN IT

 

the meditation is the other side wherein you destroy your ego completely and are then living the life from TRUTH in which ALL that happens (without exception) is accepted and is okay.

Thank you very much.

On 10/1/2018 at 5:29 PM, Matt8800 said:

@Buba Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha is a book that talks about how to get through the dark night.

There are insights that are needed to get to the next stage, which takes more meditating and contemplating. 

I went through my first dark night stage about a year ago. I finally realized if nothing objectively matters, my own suffering didnt matter. I completely accepted my suffering and applied equanimity to negative thoughts/emotions that arose. When I did this, a freedom and peace blossomed in me that was far beyond anything I had ever experienced.

Who is suffering? Why does it matter? Contemplate that very carefully.

What is the purpose of life? To embody love, beauty, truth and to be present. Accept your "suffering" and focus on chasing those 4 things.

How can you just reverse out of the dark night and forget the whole thing? You cant because once you see the truth, you cant unsee it. The only path to peace is forward once you have had an initial awakening. That is why people should be careful about the choice to start meditating. Once you make it past the dark night though, you would never want to go back to "normal". 

Saying that you dont want to progress because you dont want to lose the ego is like a 5 year old saying they dont want to grow up because they cant play with their legos anymore. You can still play with your legos as an adult....you just may be interested in other things more.

 

Also, see - https://alohadharma.com/2011/06/12/the-dark-night/ 

I thought this path was to train your brain to be able to live in uncertainty and not to seek answers. Even in Dark Night I try not go after thoughts and settle in the moment as an observer.

23 hours ago, Viking said:

maybe try to stop seeking outside sources for help and look inwards for help. all of the answers are within, if you can notice them.

ok, so wtf do i mean by that... sit comfortably and concentrate on your breathing for a few seconds while relaxing the body. then ask yourself, "what can i do to improve my situation" or "what's my problem" or "what am i afraid of and why" any question that YOU feel right. then try to answer those questions. this is the optimal way I think to solve problems, because you know your situation the best.

if you cant come up with questions, still concentrate on your breathing until a thought arises, any thought. if you meditate daily you probably know that feeling of starting to meditate and starting to have thoughts that are not in your control. those thoughts are your connection with your subconscious and it can be really powerful to just see what kind of thoughts arise and go from there. personally this technique helps me to settle any confusion i have in the moment, because the most urgent things pop up into my mind that make up this confusion.

you gotta get to a point where you dont need anyone's help. though it may not be possible for you right now. read books, buy leo's booklist if you havent already, its very good and will get you out of your shit guaranteed.

My biggest fear is embarrassment. I am afraid I will lose control and look weak and weird in front of people, who know me.

21 hours ago, Gabriel Antonio said:

Are you currently taking medication? 

Yes, Antidepressant and Lithium.

6 hours ago, Hellspeed said:

Entering in the pain of depression until it becomes a physical pain. Physical pain is easier than feeling you lose yourself. 

It does not become physical pain, but it sometimes gets accompanied by physical pain, especially headaches.

[i am I AM]

@SoonHei Sometimes I get into that state and realized this is what I could think if I was a baby, brand new to this world (if a baby could think in a language) and I see his is a new beginning. We were/I was only passing from a temporary truth.

Btw, do you get déja vu frequently?

 

 

[SoonHei]

@i am I AM every since my spiritual path. i actually haven't had very many

i want to have those moments as I have heard that deja vu really is a recognition - it's briefest of the glimpses. that's why that experience is just so familiar and different than everyday experience... alas, no big deja vu thus far since this understanding... 

 

also yes. i strongly believe and understands this deeply that upon any deep breakthrough in a trip. you return back reborn in a grown up body which can easily understand and integrate the deep insights . it REALLY is being reborn into the world

we are all "reborn" like this as a baby, but since the baby has no understanding of the world, it is discovering that state as new and is conditioned from there

 

when you have this "rebirth" in a grown up body - then you understand deeply a certain facet of the Truth and that's common with so many people after ayshcucsa trip, LSD/DMT trips where they had breakthrough

 

they are shown the truth and are reborn as an adult instead of a birth as a baby where only the ego-mind is the driver 

[Matt8800]

"I thought this path was to train your brain to be able to live in uncertainty and not to seek answers. Even in Dark Night I try not go after thoughts and settle in the moment as an observer."

@SoonHei Specifically, you need to see through the illusion related to impermanence, nothing satisfies and no self. This is done with Vipassana meditation to produce insight to see through the illusions. Concentration meditation/Samatha will not produce insight to see through the illusions.

Seeing through some of the illusions while not seeing that there is no self to actually suffer causes more disturbing emotions and feelings than if you had never seen through any of the illusions. 

You have part of the paradigm. You need the rest of the paradigm so you arent stuck in no mans land.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Matt8800

[SoonHei]

11 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

while not seeing that there is no self to actually suffer causes more disturbing emotions

i suppose the underlying fact here is that "knowing that there is no self" does not help... you must have experiential experience of it otherwise the suffering that arises, you would automatically associate with it. without leaving any room or space to be able to see thru it and thus end the suffering..

 

also vipassana meditation means mindfullness meditation?

and how does it bring about insights?

 

thus far i have done do-nothing, and self inquiry during meditation

 

i have learned and heard that best way is to approach the meditation/method which show that there is no self

thus that's what i am pursing first...

and maybe the vipassana mediation and others later...

unless there are fruits to be had while its on the same path

 

do advise @Matt8800

[Buba]

On 10/2/2018 at 6:37 PM, i am I AM said:

@SoonHei Sometimes I get into that state and realized this is what I could think if I was a baby, brand new to this world (if a baby could think in a language) and I see his is a new beginning. We were/I was only passing from a temporary truth.

Btw, do you get déja vu frequently?

After starting to meditate I begin to get deja vus very frequently. I also get memory loss. Sometimes I cant remember  "who said this", "whom I was with at that day", "where I was" and etc.

On 10/2/2018 at 9:51 PM, Matt8800 said:

"I thought this path was to train your brain to be able to live in uncertainty and not to seek answers. Even in Dark Night I try not go after thoughts and settle in the moment as an observer."

@SoonHei Specifically, you need to see through the illusion related to impermanence, nothing satisfies and no self. This is done with Vipassana meditation to produce insight to see through the illusions. Concentration meditation/Samatha will not produce insight to see through the illusions.

Seeing through some of the illusions while not seeing that there is no self to actually suffer causes more disturbing emotions and feelings than if you had never seen through any of the illusions. 

You have part of the paradigm. You need the rest of the paradigm so you arent stuck in no mans land.

So until enlightenment I will suffer.

[Samuel Rdz]

On 10/4/2018 at 0:53 AM, Buba said:

So until enlightenment I will suffer.

You are trying to get enlightened without undoing your ego, in other words is the idea of yourself who want to become enlightened, it does not work like that, that's why the suffering is huge since the ego must die in the state of pure self (enlightenment) and that death feels as real, you are trying to protect your ego instead facing it and realizing that it was just an idea that it never existed (yourself as perceived now from you). You will stop suffering when you become one with everything and your little self can no longer be the center the universe, forget yourself. Help others, don't put them apart from you since they have your liberation so they are you!