About Leo's Video ," Fake Growth Vs Real Growth"

[zenny]

Everyone, what do you guys think about this video.  

@Dhana Choko, @Ayla, @The Alchemist, @Jackthelad()( what did you guys feel?  how are you guys working on real growth and how are you deciding when to let go of things?) 

@Lynnel  @kalter000( I am curious ,how are you guys applying real growth thingy in pick up or else, in general how are you guys balancing inner work and pick up?) 

@Kelley White( kelley, what did you feel? and how are you including real growth in everyday life situations?)

@Markus @Ida @Scarlett_A@Niki(what did you guys feel )

[Guest]

Hey friend! @zenny

I found that video to be necessary, because when you do self-help you can easily get off track and delude yourself or forget what you were supposed to do in the first place. It came in the right to to remind us all and check us up if we are still on the right side of the road.

I felt that I'm doing pretty good and I already knew that shallow results in life are not the results that we are after. It's always about your inner game, and when I do personal development the biggest thing I care about is inner game. We must always stay aware that we need to resolve all the issues inside of us and not mask them with  trophy girlfriend, or a trophy job. I think Leo explained very well in his video what the issue is. Of course you can have all that, you can have a 10/10 girl and a nice business and a few amazing cars, that's all perfectly fine and amazing to have, but they won't fulfill you unless your inner game is balanced.

When I do pick up, I do this only for my own growth and for the challenge, never for the sex or the hot girls. Because in my eyes chasing girls seems pretty shallow and weak. I love when girls come to me without me doing anything, and they will, if you work on your inner game. But I know I have weaknesses that I need to work on, I need to grow and get stronger, that's why I do pickup. I used to be desperate for girls and sex before, but not anymore. Now I'm only desperate to become my greatest version  Just like Leo said, you need to know why you do things. Being a master pick up artist won't heal you from your inferiority complexes or your jaelousy, so you don't want to do pickup for that but do different work to heal your mind.

As for letting go of things, it may be hard. Very hard. Because homeostasis and withdrawal symptoms will kick in. Your ego will want to keep your comfort zone and you will feel miserable when you give up all the bullshit in your life at once. This is why I think it's important to give only one or two things up first, let that happen for one month or two and then gve up even more. When you make the challenge too strong you won't be able to give up anything. I gave up, and I am still giving up the following things: Videogames and especially World of Warcraft, Coffee, Porn, Masturbation, silly TV shows, pointless chatting and surfing on the internet. It's hard to give them up all at once, so I probably need to get going slowly.

I usually look around in my life, and I look at people, habits, things, activities. I think "How is this thing bringing me forward? How is it usefull, and how does it help me to become my greatest version?" I am very strict and honest with myself, and I remove everything that is of no important use for me and doesn't help me growing. If you do this, you will be surprised how little will stay in your life, and how little you actually need. So much stuff is only distraction and waste of time. When you do this, you make room for new, amazing, helpfull stuff, activities, people that the universe will send you.

I hope this helps, have a nice day fellow self-actualizer  

Edited March 1, 2016 by The Alchemist

[Lynnel]

@zenny Hi dear Zenny, I'll give you a fully honest answer on this one, as I'm striving to be more authentic and many people are gonna benefit from it.

At the start, I did it because when I broke up I felt like I'd never get laid again. So I did it for the sex and the girls.

Inner issues appear in form of compensatory tendencies you will notice during the journey. But you will never ever fix them until you really need to do so because it's painful and hard. And painful.

I still want the sex and the girls but I don't actually need them. Telling that you don't want sex or a hot girl or something like that unless you've had a lot of them and you're looking for some specific thing is a lie. You want something. But you don't really need it. I have this kinda blasey vibe after all the shit I've been trough, like " yeah it's cool but it's not gonna change my life ".

In the end I got some great girls and had some great stories and...It fixed nothing.

You have to pursue the superficial until you realize it doesn't help and doesn't fix shit. Then you finally realize you have to do the inner work.

But that usually happens only once you've tried everything or most of the things. And you realize they're not gonna help and they're not gonna make you happy. They are fucking not. And it's really hard to realize. It takes lots and lots of painful moments until you become aware that the problem is not in what is but what is inside your mind.

On the other hand, it gives you a lot of motivation which a lot of people lack. Pick-up is hard for this exact reason : there will be moment when you HAVE to solve the deeper issues, at least on a small scale to progress. Then you realize it was a big lie and your progress was actually really small...and you go on to fix the deeper issue. You will get to this OH SHIT moment at some point, and that's what this video confirmed for me. Really great.
 

To some extent, it may seem strange, but you can't simply go and fix the inner issue, because often you don't what it is. Hence you're always on the right track because you're finding it ! You can't really do this wrong.

[Anna]

We also have to other posts about this topic:

 

 

 

[zenny]

@The Alchemist 

 

That really helps bro. I am going to re-read what you typed again and take some notes from it. Thanks for sharing bro, right now, I should make a list of things that I should be cutting down..

I have to start working on my inner game a lot. I haven't started meeting girls and I have this drive to chase them,but, I am becoming even more driven about self actualization these days. 

I should definitely cut down Porn, Masturbation, pointless chatting and surfing, many more.I love the idea of making room for  new, amazing, helpful stuff, activities, people that the universe will send me.

[Electron]

I have some doubts regarding this video too:

 

 

[zenny]

@Lynnel Lynnelll Broooooo. 

I feel that you have gone through a lot. 

I have to start meeting girls and before that ,I am curious to know your opinion on the following" should I pursue girls or should I work on letting go of such a need?". I am curious about  girls for sure, so I want to hold a relationship with at least one girl.

I am thinking to work on my inner game a lot. For me, its quite an emotional journey. Trying to fix me on inside might take some time and focused effort. Its definitely painful and hard . 

[zenny]

@Anna Thanks anna 

P.S( anna reminds me of anne, a character in the book " famous five" written by enid blyton" I love that book. )

[Niki]

Awesome video as usual.

Lynnel mentioned in one of his posts how he journals about his progress. I have my notebook where I write notes as well. Also I use NLP to do the inner work (changing personal history) + I meditate an hour a day + I have a personal coach to whom I go to twice a month. It's how I do inner work.

I would like to point out a different perspective and give the same pros to the outer world which Leo gave for the inner one.

Outer world is soooooo important because it gives you insight about the inner world. I perceived myself in one way in one area of my life and by doing a lot of outer work, a lot of things clicked in the inner world. I realized.. ooooohh...... I am not like that.. actually I am more like this. Outer world in a way pushes you (at least me) to be even more hard core on our inner work.

It's like reality unables you to bullshit yourself about things. For example you think you are great at sports. And then you go out and play.. and what happens is that actually you are good, but you aren't great. You have to work harder than you thought. Reality as in outer world thought you that what you think of yourself is an illusion. For example as a man you can have an illusion about being super masculine and super hard core, alpha or smth like that. You don't date women that much, you don't know how to attract women, but you perceive yourself as hard core alpha and protect your image of yourself by not approaching women. Then you go out, use PU to get girls and all of a sudden you realize how you attract more masculine women and how you behave towards them isn't that alpha, you are behaving gentle and more feminine.. And boom! Your illusion is blown. Of course that is just one out of many illusions you have.

The point is, outer world is awesome as well, it can give you growth if you do things wisely, if you use it as a tool to do the inner work. The only thing that is important is the balance between the two - the inner and the outer world.

[zenny]

@Niki niki

That's nice , even I should start writing notes in a notebook and meditate on an regular basis. 

niki, your comment reminds me of what my friend used to tell me, he said that ,"running is not just physical , its even psychological".

Seems like outer world can change the inner world too

isn't it interesting to see how body and mind are so closely related. 

ha ha , yes, I definitely don't have the illusion that i am a super masculine. I have a changing energy level, at times, i am like a child in an amusement park and there are moments when i am like a monk( these moments are quite rare though),  etc.

Using Outer world as a tool is a good idea.

[kalter000]

1 hour ago, Niki said:

Outer world is soooooo important because it gives you insight about the inner world.

You are absolutely right. World is our mirror, we can either drop ego and look honestly at ourselves through it, or escape into fantasies.

[Kelley White]

17 hours ago, zenny said:

@Kelley White( kelley, what did you feel? and how are you including real growth in everyday life situations?)

Hi! @zenny  I like that!   Great question. 

Feelings when I first watched the video....

• My first feeling was defensiveness.
• My second feeling was fear.
• My third feeling was relief.
• My fourth feeling was happiness.

Growth in every day situations:  This is more Gestalt for me; a holistic process.   I meditate, I write, I read, I do Byron Katie's the Work with myself and with others.   This forum is a part of my growth.    There's not a concise list; its more a state of being or living. 

I approach every situation as a learning opportunity.  I look at each person and seek the common thread of connection.  I'm constantly seeking new tools to improve myself or to help others.   I challenge myself to do things I perceive to be limiting my own growth.  

I like being around people who can, in a constructive way. call me on my own bullshit.   Now that does not mean I bypass the two year old melt down; it just means after the two year old melt down I can say, "yeah I own that and I can see its biting me in the butt. "   If I can identify the issue, I can find options to take corrective action.

I would say the thing I try to remember the most is its not a destination or a linear process.   Some days I make forward progress, some days I "fall" grandly.  I think succeeding is just getting up more times than you fall.   Or maybe falling and getting back up with style? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kelley White]

6 hours ago, Niki said:

The point is, outer world is awesome as well, it can give you growth if you do things wisely, if you use it as a tool to do the inner work. The only thing that is important is the balance between the two - the inner and the outer world.

@Niki  Great insight.

[Oleg F]

I think this is a solid video with a strong message. And I would like to make it clear that I am not bashing Leo's videos in my posts. But I do have a different view on the topic of self-development and simply sharing my perspective.

The video may be a bit confusing. For example, if someone watches an older video about affirmations, and then jumps straight to Fake Growth Vs Real Growth, there may be some contradictions.
How can you practice feeding your mind with affirmations with the intention of getting results in life, when the real growth will only happen after you no longer need those results in order to feel fulfilled ?
Of course, somebody who is experienced in the subject of self-development will say that those two things happen on different stages of development: at first you need the affirmations... but eventually you move into self-transcendence - where those little worries become irrelevant.

So in essence, you may say that real development happens when you no longer NEED to attain anything or to change anything. It simply is not a concern at a certain point. It is not a concern when you SEE that what you have right now is everything you need plus some.

Which raises a very interesting question!
Is it possible that real spiritual growth happens when you no longer NEED to change anything in yourself? When you no longer have the need to meditate for X number of hours and no longer have the need to attain Enlightenment? Because if you DO feel that need, then you are chasing something similar to THAT which you were chasing when you were doing your "My business is making $XXXX per day" affirmation.

The "need to change" and "need to work on something" mentality is only meant to take you to a certain point in your development. It is meant to make you realize that you are only here to serve that which is RIGHT NOW. The idea of working on something (chasing) takes you to fantasy land even when it comes to self-development.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Oleg F

[zenny]

@Kelley White kellyy. 

I have come across byron katie's work.

I learnt the following from your comment :

1. Different states of being (like being equanimous, being kind, being brave, etc,) with practice, might become a part of everyday life and this will help one to handle life situations well.

2.Being open for new perspectives , challenges , etc, will provide one with a possibility for growth.

3.Learning from criticisms is another way to improve.

4. Success might be about getting back up and being more resilient , and learning along the way each time when one gets back up.  

getting back up with style

[zenny]

@Oleg F hii

I understood the following by reading your comment:

1. Real change might actually happen ,when, one lets go of control over wanting things to be different from ,"what is". 

Its strange mate. When someone lets go of everything, there's no will power anymore and they become silent too. They are naturally in a meditative state( being aware , equanimous etc) . 

Exactly , Real change might be possible ,when ,I give up and completely surrender , without even knowing how to surrender.

 

[Niki]

17 hours ago, Kelley White said:

I like being around people who can, in a constructive way. call me on my own bullshit. 

I feel you!! I can't stress how awesome this is. I am working with coaches and NLP trainers on my working hours. Having coaches or/and an NLP trainers as a coworkers with whom you spend 8h a day is priceless! I've never experienced so much transformation in such a short period of time!!

 

4 hours ago, Oleg F said:

How can you practice feeding your mind with affirmations with the intention of getting results in life, when the real growth will only happen after you no longer need those results in order to feel fulfilled ?
Of course, somebody who is experienced in the subject of self-development will say that those two things happen on different stages of development: at first you need the affirmations... but eventually you move into self-transcendence - where those little worries become irrelevant.

You answered your own question,

4 hours ago, Oleg F said:

The "need to change" and "need to work on something" mentality is only meant to take you to a certain point in your development.

Indeed.

4 hours ago, Oleg F said:

The idea of working on something (chasing) takes you to fantasy land even when it comes to self-development.

How does working on something take you to fantasy land? I would strongly disagree. Perhaps you meant to say something else?

[QandC]

On 2016-03-01 at 7:56 AM, zenny said:

Everyone, what do you guys think about this video.  

@Dhana Choko, @Ayla, @The Alchemist, @Jackthelad()( what did you guys feel?  how are you guys working on real growth and how are you deciding when to let go of things?) 

@Lynnel  @kalter000( I am curious ,how are you guys applying real growth thingy in pick up or else, in general how are you guys balancing inner work and pick up?) 

@Kelley White( kelley, what did you feel? and how are you including real growth in everyday life situations?)

@Markus @Ida @Scarlett_A@Niki(what did you guys feel )

Why didn't u tag me? :'( 

[Lynnel]

On 1/3/2016 at 7:56 PM, zenny said:

@Lynnel

I have to start meeting girls and before that ,I am curious to know your opinion on the following" should I pursue girls or should I work on letting go of such a need?".

It will happen automatically once you trust the journey. Letting go is REALLY HARD and you will do so ONLY if you really really like really have to. So yes, go on and attract girls, and handle ALL the issues that pop up on the go

[zenny]

@Quizzer lol. sure mate. Next time when i have a question , i will tag you.