Stop assuming things about people

[Shanmugam]

There are 7 billion people on the earth. 7 billion! Just think about it for a moment.. And each person is different. You don't know everyone.. Of course, there are some tendencies that a typical human being has and that is what psychology is all about. But that doesn't mean that you really know another person completely. Every individual knows every step that he has taken, every thought that he has encountered and every experience that he has lived through. But I know that at least I haven't had a chance to even glimpse another person's private subjective experience even once.. I only know others by inference.. 

Many threads in this forum are filled with conversations which started just because one person made an assumption about another person. It is not wrong to make assumptions. I don't moralize anything! But you need to have the self honesty to realize that your assumption could be wrong. You can't really come to any conclusions about another person's attitude, experience, progress etc based on the words he is using. Because, one thing that I have learnt is that, words can betray the meaning that was intended to convey by the person who used those words...

Also, don't get trapped in the game of comparison. As soon as you realize that spiritual enlightenment is what you are seeking, you also need to realize that it is not a competition. It is not about proving who is more or less enlightened than you. It doesn't have anything to do with the rat race that any typical human being is a part of. If you really want to compare, then compare what you are now vs what you were two years ago.

Spiritual enlightenment is not based on how many books you have read, you much you know, how much wiser you are, how better you are than another person or what kind of mystical, magical, bizarre, one of a kind experiences that you went through... It is about freedom, a complete freedom from anything that can imprison you.. Spiritual enlightenment is not self-improvement; the spiritual path begins with an inquiry  about that 'self' which wants to improve...

This forum is filled with people who want to say "folks, you don't understand what I have understood; You are wrong! I am wiser than all of you.. You are wasting your time whereas I am the only one who is the authority.. I am fucking right and you are fucking wrong".... No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just think about it and see if it resonates with you. And  Just because I am saying all this, it doesn't mean that I am superior.. If you want, then consider me as a stupid, brainless asshole who is wasting his time... After all, who am I to tell you what you should be doing?  .. Be selfish when it comes to your spiritual path. I may be a moron who is wasting his time and who doesn't have any fucking clue about what is true.. But is it important to you? What is more important to you is what you really want from the bottom of your heart.

[Joseph Maynor]

@Shanmugam The problem with these kinds of moves is that you are doing exactly what you are saying not to do -- judging others and trying to control others -- and trying to control reality.  Why do you assume that reality should proceed according to your values?  See?  I had a discussion with homeboy the other day about this exact same issue.  It's a trap.  You don't get to control reality, accept that.  I know you want to though.  Let other people decide for themselves.  Why should you get to make the rules -- your own Egoic desire enforced on the community?  

Edited February 11, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[snowleopard]

@Shanmugam  No way man, the snowleopard version of the Dream is definitely more valid than yours, or any others

[Shanmugam]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Shanmugam The problem with these kinds of moves is that you are doing exactly what you are saying not to do -- judging others and trying to control others -- and trying to control reality.  Why do you assume that reality should proceed according to your values?  See?  I had a discussion with homeboy the other day about this exact same issue.  It's a trap.  You don't get to control reality, accept that.  I know you want to though.  Let other people decide for themselves. 

Probably you are right according to your perspective and I am right according to my perspective... But is there anyway that both of us can be friends? Consider that I am wrong; but is there a way that we can be tolerant of each other in spite of such differences? Forget about proving who is right and who is wrong... If you want then let me do this.., I am wrong and whatever I am saying is bullshit.. Happy? But the question is, are you willing to smile at me and accept me as your friend or brother? Because, as far as I am concerned, that is what life is about.. It is about love.  And acceptance... And I could be wrong according to what I think.. But can we focus on smiling at each each other and accepting each other as they are? 

[Shanmugam]

@Nahm  This is not an intellectual discussion...  So I am not going to get into such discussion in this thread.. This thread is about love... How is your weekend going?

[Deep]

@Shanmugam I think you do a great job in explaining things. Unfortunately, you will always be misunderstood on this forum because it is a forum. Everyone will misunderstand each other. 

[MarkusSweden]

@Shanmugam I think it goes like this..

Stop assuming things about people, unless it's Shanmugam that assuming things about Sadhguru, then it's ok.  

 

[MarkusSweden]

23 minutes ago, snowleopard said:

@Shanmugam  No way man, the snowleopard version of the Dream is definitely more valid than yours, or any others

Hehe, you said it as a joke of course, but it's in fact true. 

You carry your self with ease, never positioning yourself or bother to change other people opinions or care about your reputation. 

You're just a humours low key kind of guy with deep connection with life, just as Dodo. 

But the world or this forum doesn't really care, or notice, it's the drama that caught attention. 

That's just how it goes. 

It's perfect the way it is I guess! 

 

[Shanmugam]

@Deep 

@Nahm  I am having a drink.... .. I drink every sunday... And  I am very grateful to this forum.. And I can't thank @Anna1 and @Nichols Harvey enough... Because, they were the sole reason why I wrote a book. If I have never met them online, things would have been different and I would not have published a book... It is all because of God, the  mystery beyond the existence....I bow down to existence because of the priceless encounters and experiences that the mysterious 'God' has offered me,, I can't think Him enough... I was a helpless guy who was suffering every minute and complaining about the nature of existence when I was 15 years old.. I remember how it was... It was a Hell, literally... And now I don't know who to thank...  ... forget about this 'Shanmugam' who is just a spec in the infinity of the existence... But think about that tremendous possibility of uniting with 'God', uniting with the absolute mystery of the existence who showers love and grace; who showers that priceless thing called 'enlightenment'... This thread is just a gratitude to every piece of life in this universe.... I Love you all! I just feel an ocean of gratitude but I have no idea who I should be thankful for.... 

[Faceless]

29 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

There are 7 billion people on the earth. 7 billion! Just think about it for a moment.. And each person is different. You don't know everyone.. Of course, there are some tendencies that a typical human being has and that is what psychology is all about. But that doesn't mean that you really know another person completely. Every individual knows every step that he has taken, every thought that he has encountered and every experience that he has lived through. But I know that at least I haven't had a chance to even glimpse another person's private subjective experience even once.. I only know others by inference.. 

Many threads in this forum are filled with conversations which started just because one person made an assumption about another person. It is not wrong to make assumptions. I don't moralize anything! But you need to have the self honesty to realize that your assumption could be wrong. You can't really come to any conclusions about another person's attitude, experience, progress etc based on the words he is using. Because, one thing that I have learnt is that, words can betray the meaning that was intended to convey by the person who used those words...

Also, don't get trapped in the game of comparison. As soon as you realize that spiritual enlightenment is what you are seeking, you also need to realize that it is not a competition. It is not about proving who is more or less enlightened than you. It doesn't have anything to do with the rat race that any typical human being is a part of. If you really want to compare, then compare what you are now vs what you were two years ago.

Spiritual enlightenment is not based on how many books you have read, you much you know, how much wiser you are, how better you are than another person or what kind of mystical, magical, bizarre, one of a kind experiences that you went through... It is about freedom, a complete freedom from anything that can imprison you.. Spiritual enlightenment is not self-improvement; the spiritual path begins with an inquiry  about that 'self' which wants to improve...

This forum is filled with people who want to say "folks, you don't understand what I have understood; You are wrong! I am wiser than all of you.. You are wasting your time whereas I am the only one who is the authority.. I am fucking right and you are fucking wrong".... No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just think about it and see if it resonates with you. And  Just because I am saying all this, it doesn't mean that I am superior.. If you want, then consider me as a stupid, brainless asshole who is wasting his time... After all, who am I to tell you what you should be doing?  .. Be selfish when it comes to your spiritual path. I may be a moron who is wasting his time and who doesn't have any fucking clue about what is true.. But is it important to you? What is more important to you is what you really want from the bottom of your heart.

This is right. You can not know anyone. People are always changing. To say u know someone means you know them according to an idea of them from the past/memory which is an assumption that you known them as they are now. To know means of memory, knowledge, experience. And anything that is static, dead, is of the past. But the ever changing movment of the now is constant, dynamic, and always new. We are in a constant state of change. You are not the same one day as the next. This is important to inquire into. 

And not getting trapped in measure/comparison is also very important. Can’t learn objectively about the self with this constant ‘desire’ to improve. That prevents total observation and attention because there is a bias introduced which will introduce incoherence into the investigation..It’s about attention without motive. 

Also another good tip from @Shanmugam is if this measure/comparison is watched very carefully this compulsion to feel superior to another will cease. 

Over all a very important message.

[snowleopard]

11 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

But the world or this forum doesn't really care, or notice, it's the drama that caught attention.

Oh, I can do drama, just watch this ...

@Nahm

24 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Putting wood floor in. 3 rooms down

Materialist tree-killer !!  

[MarkusSweden]

@snowleopard   

Edited February 11, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Shanmugam]

God is real.. And He is Love! You are God and this is true... It is not a person but it is, or He is, everything! Yes..everything!!! He makes me to do anything that I do and he creates this drama of life.. I don't do anything, it is all done by Him... He makes me to type, makes me to act and makes me to do everything.. 

[Shanmugam]

Read the poems of Rumi... He is a mystic poet.. Any Rumi fans here? 

[Faceless]

@Shanmugam

Let’s keep it at a happening/process lol 

you know why I say this right? 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Faceless

[Nahm]

@Shanmugam lol. He’s my favorite!  

[Nahm]

@snowleopard LOL.   It’s of course, the cheap fake laminate. 

[snowleopard]

5 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

And He is Love!

So the Divine is a He now?  How politically incorrect!

Not to worry ... seems you're in good company ...

 

In the delicious night,

In privacy, where no one saw me,

Nor did I see one thing,

I had no light or guide

But the fire that burned inside my chest.

 

That fire showed me

The way more clearly than the blaze of noon

To where, waiting for me,

Was the One I knew so well,

In that place where no one ever is.

 

Oh night, sweet guider,

Oh night more marvelous than dawn!

Oh night which joins

The lover and the beloved

So that the lover and beloved change bodies!

 

In my chest full of flowers,

Flowering wholly and only for Him,

There He remained sleeping;

I cared for Him there,

And the fan of the high cedars cooled Him.

 

The wind played with

His hair, and that wind from the high

Towers struck me on the neck

With its sober hand;

Sight, taste, touch, hearing stopped.

 

I stood still, I forgot who I was,

My face leaning against Him,

Everything stopped, abandoned me,

My worldliness was gone, forgotten

Among the white lilies.

 

~ St. John of the Cross

from The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross 

[Faceless]

10 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

God is real.. And He is Love! You are God and this is true... It is not a person but it is, or He is, everything! Yes..everything!!! He makes me to do anything that I do and he creates this drama of life.. I don't do anything, it is all done by Him... He makes me to type, makes me to act and makes me to do everything.. 

Unfortunately such words seem to introduce division in the kingdom of heaven. Lol 

no isolated spirits!!!

???????

Edited February 11, 2018 by Faceless

[Shin]

7 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Read the poems of Rumi... He is a mystic poet.. Any Rumi fans here? 

I'm a simple spiritual seeker

I see Rumi I upv...