Suffering = Growth

[Slade]

Suffering = Growth

I’ve been watching some navy seals speak lately and one in particular, David Goggins, has the perspective that in order to grow, we need to suffer. This makes a lot of sense to me because I can think of multiple times in the past where I was faced with a situation where I had to step up to the plate, push my comfort zone, and become a stronger person in order to achieve a goal. Suffering is kind of like a purifying fire. It hurts like a mofo, but afterward you’re a stronger person because of it. 

Do you think this mentality applies to life purpose, spirituality, and personal development work in general? 

Do you think we should methodically seek out suffering in order to grow?

[NoSelfSelf]

Yes there is a positive suffering when you meditate,self-inquire,learn..and there is a negative with worry,anger,control/neuroticism...

[Shin]

27 minutes ago, Slade said:

Suffering = Growth

I’ve been watching some navy seals speak lately and one in particular, David Goggins, has the perspective that in order to grow, we need to suffer. This makes a lot of sense to me because I can think of multiple times in the past where I was faced with a situation where I had to step up to the plate, push my comfort zone, and become a stronger person in order to achieve a goal. Suffering is kind of like a purifying fire. It hurts like a mofo, but afterward you’re a stronger person because of it. 

Do you think this mentality applies to life purpose, spirituality, and personal development work in general? 

Do you think we should methodically seek out suffering in order to grow?

Life will throw you enough shit to handle for you to seek it on purpose ^^ 

If you really want to do something about that, you could imagine a scenario that you know that will make you uncomfortable/scared, and feel the emotion fully.

It won't solve the probleme entirely, but it will be easier when it actually happens, if it happens.
Doing that regularly will make you less scared about being scared, and you won't see pain and fear the same way anymore.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Shin

[dorg]

Once you have been round the suffering>growth cycle a few times you understand that there is really nothing to suffer over as the 'unpleasantness' is just showing you where you are still attached.

[Sunchild]

[On the heels of dorg's post there, which is on the right track]

To me becoming totally enraptured was what did it for me-totally drawn into a brand new world of wonders.  Anything other than realizing that anything in 123D simply isn't worth getting worked up over is just reshuffling the chairs.

[electroBeam]

I totally disagree. 

As Sadhguru says "its not about working hard, its about doing the right thing". Suffering also = setbacks and decline from growth. Consider a case where you have social anxiety. If you go out and expose yourself more, studies show that you get more traumatised and are less likely to go out again.

Suffering might = growth, and might not. 

[Elisabeth]

2 hours ago, Slade said:

Do you think we should methodically seek out suffering in order to grow?

 

No. 

Change comes about from our willingness to change. Willingness to change can, but need not necessarily, come from suffering.  

We shouldn't be avoiding suffering if it's necessary for a meaningful purpose though. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Elisabeth

[Shin]

10 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I totally disagree. 

As Sadhguru says "its not about working hard, its about doing the right thing". Suffering also = setbacks and decline from growth. Consider a case where you have social anxiety. If you go out and expose yourself more, studies show that you get more traumatised and are less likely to go out again.

Suffering might = growth, and might not. 

Depends if you are conscious of why you are suffering, why it happened, and what can you do about it.

The problem with most people is that pain = bad = not thinking of it.

With that kind of (victim) mindset you can suffer all your life without never take any step in the right direction.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Shin

[Torkys]

pain × resistance = suffering

resistance = 1 / growth

Therefore: growth = pain / suffering

Increasing suffering won't directly lead to growth. Notice that if you only increase suffering, growth will actually decrease.

Decreasing resistance to suffering will make growth happen, you can only do this if you suffer, but don't think that mere suffering in itself will bring growth. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Torkys

[Slade]

4 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Yes there is a positive suffering when you meditate,self-inquire,learn..and there is a negative with worry,anger,control/neuroticism...

Look at Eckhart Tolle though. His suffering was mainly mental as he had depression most of his life and it lead to his enlightenment. 

 

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

I totally disagree. 

As Sadhguru says "its not about working hard, its about doing the right thing". Suffering also = setbacks and decline from growth. Consider a case where you have social anxiety. If you go out and expose yourself more, studies show that you get more traumatised and are less likely to go out again.

Suffering might = growth, and might not. 

Okay but when the trauma from something like social anxiety leads to more social anxiety and more suffering, how can we say that, that suffering isn’t helping us grow? Eckhart Tolle is a perfect example of this. Things only seemed to get worse for him throughout his life and now look at him. 

 

1 hour ago, Elisabeth said:

No. 

Change comes about from our willingness to change. Willingness to change can, but need not necessarily, come from suffering.  

We shouldn't be avoiding suffering if it's necessary for a meaningful purpose though. 

Does change really mean growth though? You can win the lottery and go from a trailer park to a mansion, which is a big change but that doesn’t mean you grow. I think what really brings growth is leaning into the pain which is exactly what our ego doesn’t want to do. 

 

1 hour ago, Torkys said:

pain × resistance = suffering

resistance = 1 / growth

Therefore: growth = pain / suffering

Increasing suffering won't directly lead to growth. Notice that if you only increase suffering, growth will actually decrease.

Decreasing resistance to suffering will make growth happen, you can only do this if you suffer, but don't think that mere suffering in itself will bring growth. 

For this again I point to Eckhart Tolle. His situation seems to be the opposite of what you’re saying. He resisted his suffering so much that it lead to him “not being able to live with himself anymore”. And again, now he’s enlightened. 

[Source_Mystic]

@SladeIf you believe this whole heatedly then you have no other choice than to be a ascetic and pursue every form of suffering imaginable.

Good luck

Edited February 11, 2018 by Source_Mystic

[adam747]

"No mud No lotus"

[Faceless]

Suffering=growth=Suffering

its more about using the energy derived from that suffering to fuel an inquiry why we are suffering. Using the energy in and as attention/awarness ‘with no motive’ without condemning or justifying what is observed. 

Resisting the what is ‘suffering’ is to condemn. 

Accepting what is ‘suffering’ is to justify. 

both are simply reactions to suffering. It’s about a choicless awareness of what is. Just to watch

[electroBeam]

@Shin good point

[electroBeam]

6 hours ago, Slade said:

Okay but when the trauma from something like social anxiety leads to more social anxiety and more suffering, how can we say that, that suffering isn’t helping us grow? Eckhart Tolle is a perfect example of this. Things only seemed to get worse for him throughout his life and now look at him.  

right, suffering can happen at the same time of growth, but its not a prerequisite. This reminds me of a story indian yogis use to say: Back in ancient india, bracelets were banned in temples because they were considered a sign of misfortune, but one man really liked his bracelet so he kept it on during meditation sessions. One day, coincidentally heaps of people were getting enlightened in the temple, and at the same time this allowed people to have more awareness, and they noticed the bracelet on the man's hand. They said "wow they day you wore that bracelet is the day we all got enlightened. We shall make a rule that everyone must wear a bracelet whenever they enter the temple" Even though he had been wearing the bracelet the entire year. 

This reminds me of your theory about growth, you saw a few people get in pain from getting enlightenment, plus after all the Eric thomas and Tony Robbins bs its now trendy to enjoy suffering and aim to suffer, and now you've turned it into a culture, a sort of ritual. 

[aurum]

@Slade

Yes and no.

You never want to take one concept and run too far with it. And this is definitely one of them.

Suffering undoubtedly can produce growth in people. All my biggest personal leaps have occurred after periods of suffering and I definitely wouldn't be who I am without them.

There's different explanations for this. In a book called Anti-fragile Nassam Taleb presents an argument that we need a certain level of disorder, chaos and breakdown in order to come back stronger. In spiritual work, people talk about the purification of the subconscious mind or the raising of vibration.

So there's definitely something to the idea that suffering = growth. And it can be a powerful belief to help you cope in those hard times.

But here's why I say you don't want to run too far with it.

The point of suffering is ultimately so that you don't have to suffer anymore!

When you go through experiences like that, they force you to let go of attachment. By letting go of attachment, happiness becomes your default way of being in the world.

Life is meant to be light, joyful and easy. Not a constant bashing where you're in pain all the time.

But if you think you need pain, that is what you'll get.

So use suffering as a tool. But also be willing to let go of masochism and move up into the light.

[Torkys]

10 hours ago, Slade said:

For this again I point to Eckhart Tolle. His situation seems to be the opposite of what you’re saying. He resisted his suffering so much that it lead to him “not being able to live with himself anymore”. And again, now he’s enlightened. 

Well, he suffered so much and resisted so much that he realized that it was just an illusion and pointless. Until then, there was no growth. The dropping of resistance was his enlightenment.

[Slade]

7 hours ago, Torkys said:

Well, he suffered so much and resisted so much that he realized that it was just an illusion and pointless. Until then, there was no growth. The dropping of resistance was his enlightenment.

How can you say there wasn’t any growth? He could’ve been burning away his ego slowly but surely all those years just like we do with self inquiry until his ego was only holding on my the tips of its fingers and all it needed was one more straw to break the camels back. 

[BettyStreet]

@Slade Hi, I've read/watched quite a lot of stuff re Dave Goggins and Eckhart Tolle.  Both very different men, but both indicate that suffering is essential for growth and awareness.  What I can't quite get my head round is whether we should be striving to improve ourselves as people (as Goggins suggests), or whether we should accept who we are, which is more along the lines of what Eckhart suggests.  Both men tell us that facing up to things in life and dealing with them will involve suffering at some point, which will lead to growth and awareness.   But the Goggins "way" - is this merely for the egoic mind, the drive to become the mentally strongest person that you can possibly be?  Is it necessary?  

[neovox]

suffering+ responsibility= progression

suffering- responsibility = regression