Let’s do an honest investigation

[Emre]

I know all the gurus, wise-men, sages have given the answer. But did you receive the answer for yourself which is the only way that the answer could mean anyhting at all?

The question, the topic of the investigation is ‘Is there a thinker to thoughts?’ don’t just give me the answers that you have almost memorized. A lot of people who thinks they have the answer live their lives just as same as a person who doesn’t even ask the question. Learning=Realization=Behaviour Change!!

I will be defending the answer yes and all those great non-dualers you are invited!

The first thing I have to say is okay I might not be able to know when exactly what thoughts will come but I can say ‘I am gonna think about an elephant’ and then think about the elephant. Doesn’t that apply that actually I can think my thoughts?

[MarkusSweden]

Did you mean "Let's do honest mental masturbation?" 

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Emre]

14 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

Did you mean "Let's do honest mental masturbation?" 

 

No I meant questioning which is ‘one’ of those things that are required to live a wise life along with meditation, contemplation etc.

[MarkusSweden]

38 minutes ago, Emre said:

No I meant questioning which is ‘one’ of those things that are required to live a wise life along with meditation, contemplation etc.

A wise man who spent his whole life in spiritual communities finally reached enlightenment. 

That man, now in old age went back to the streets of his youth! 

He walked the very same street he use to walk after school, the birds were singing in the same way, the air was blowing in the same way making the leafs of the trees sound the same way. 

He noticed his consciousness was the VERY same as when he was a boy, it was the exact same existential awareness. For one milli second he ask himself..

What, nothing changed, my consciousness is not higher, not more pure then it once was in my youth. Shall I be disappointed? Did I waste my whole life with all this spiritual non sense?

The very next second, it hits him. Well, there is actually one thing that differs. In my youth, I thought there was MUCH more to this. Now I know there is NOTHING more to it. 

He continued to walk.. slowly.. tears went down his chin. He burst out to tears. Almost as if his heart couldn't handle all the bliss and beauty although there was sadness to it as well. 

Which one state did you prefer, one man asked him, although it was the exact same conscious experience. The state when he thought there were much more to it as a kid, or the state of today when you know there is nothing more to it? 

He answered - I prefer it the way it happened, I never raised any consciousness, never find higher awareness. It was always infinite. My spiritual journey only added another interpretation of it. And if that interpretation went from "This is nothing, to this is everything, what more can I asked for?" 

Do you understand this metaphor Emre?  

Edited February 10, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[AlwaysBeNice]

Why do you think there would be sadness after awakening Markus? You see through an illusion, you don't actually lose anything of value.

[Barna]

The thinker is a thought among thoughts. And the feeler is a feeling among feelings. 

Are you not thinking that you're thinking? And are you not feeling that you're feeling? 

[Joseph Maynor]

20 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

Did you mean "Let's do honest mental masturbation?" 

 

Haha.  I'll give it a crack.  That's funny though.  I disrupted my stillness to answer this.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[NoSelfSelf]

Because you dont know when and what next thought will be..."you"thinking about elephant is just thought arising in conciousness and you observe them with interest thats why you say its mine like you watch wall inside your bedroom and think to yourself its mine but its just a wall standing there...

[NoSelfSelf]

@MarkusSweden This story sounds depressing its should be like this its so beautiful i feel the love for the first time its perfect as it is... just a joyful dream 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Stop listening to all scripture.  You need to cut yourself off the scripture.

I agree with that. It serves to open the mind, and inspire, but then must be put down, or it’s a crutch of clinging. It can become a filter for truth which of course isn’t truth. Sometimes though, it’s hard to know it was the pointing inner, if you haven’t yet seen the moon. (Not you, just generally speaking)

[MarkusSweden]

1 hour ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@MarkusSweden This story sounds depressing its should be like this its so beautiful i feel the love for the first time its perfect as it is... just a joyful dream 

I agree! I'm not a good story inventor, I just made it up as I wrote it!  

Feel free to change it, it's an open source story, let's say.  

I just think it's beautiful how the VERY same "infinite awareness" can mean two different things, to a child there is something promising about it, the leafs in the tree sing the song of the childs future. But to an old wise man the leafs sing the song oneness, interconnectedness! 

But the awareness itself, that mystical profound, yet utterly simple experience never change. There is no such thing as "higher" awareness. 

Awareness can only be clouded temporarily (or a whole life if you choose to) by thoughts and other mind activities trying to manipulate reality.(But reality always stays the same) 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[NoSelfSelf]

@MarkusSweden Story is great...you are good at it (but it striked me as depressive)

[SgtPepper]

but who chose to think about the elephant before thinking about the elephant? Why not a dog or a clown? 

[Nahm]

@Emre The trouble with realizing there is no thinker, is realizing you were never born. I love your approach though, the ‘let’s dive in’ style. 

[pluto]

The situation in this forum is far too many are mentally influenced and stimulated and too much "thinking" Not enough "Feeling". Without feeling you understanding nothing.

 

[Emre]

@SgtPepper That might have happened out of choice but that still doesn’t apply that how it went after was not chosen

[Emre]

@Nahm Yeah cause apparently the thinker is who we take our selves to be