Noob question

[Truth Addict]

"All beliefs are false"

Isn't that a belief?

This means that some beliefs can be true. Am I right?

[Joseph Maynor]

It means that conceptual-truth is not existential-truth.  The map is not the territory.  The meal is not the menu.

It is a belief.  You're right.  It's counter-weight theory.  I can cling to it loosely. 

I prefer to do this, however: suspend belief.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Truth Addict]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

It means that conceptual-truth is not existential-truth.  The map is not the territory.  The meal is not the menu.

Oh I see.

Thanks.

[Joseph Maynor]

16 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Oh I see.

Thanks.

Watch this video:

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

Here's another video to watch.  This video had a profound impact on my thinking about how to regard beliefs in this work.

 

[NoSelfSelf]

I think that is called meta belief belief about the beliefs they are also super tricky,its best to drop them for now...(in the end)

[Shin]

Whatever you didn't experienced in your life is just a thought.

So if you didn't see, for example, Paris, then it doesn't exist for you.

You can even go deeper, everything you don't experience RIGHT NOW, is a thought, therefore not real.

[eputkonen]

3 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

"All beliefs are false"

Isn't that a belief?

This means that some beliefs can be true. Am I right?

If the belief was true...you wouldn't know, because it is just a belief.  With knowledge/understanding...belief is not needed, because you know.

It would be better to just stick with what you know and do not know...and not bother believing.  The world is seen through the blinders and colored lenses of our beliefs.  So if you don't believe something that is in fact true, you may not see the truth of it because you deny it to hold onto your belief.  Everything you do see (through the filters/blinders) is substantiating your belief...belief blindness you could call it, blindness to any information contrary to the belief.

The world is most clearly seen as it truly is when we hold no beliefs.

Edited February 10, 2018 by eputkonen

[Truth Addict]

4 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

I think that is called meta belief belief about the beliefs they are also super tricky,its best to drop them for now...(in the end)

Why dropping all beliefs? Are they all bad?

4 hours ago, Shin said:

Whatever you didn't experienced in your life is just a thought.

So if you didn't see, for example, Paris, then it doesn't exist for you.

You can even go deeper, everything you don't experience RIGHT NOW, is a thought, therefore not real.

I get your point, but again isn't that a belief too? Or just me doing mental masturbation?

2 hours ago, eputkonen said:

If the belief was true...you wouldn't know, because it is just a belief.  With knowledge/understanding...belief is not needed, because you know.

It would be better to just stick with what you know and do not know...and not bother believing.  The world is seen through the blinders and colored lenses of our beliefs.  So if you don't believe something that is in fact true, you may not see the truth of it because you deny it to hold onto your belief.  Everything you do see (through the filters/blinders) is substantiating your belief...belief blindness you could call it, blindness to any information contrary to the belief.

The world is most clearly seen as it truly is when we hold no beliefs.

This is what makes the world a meaningless place. It is what it is, utterly meaningless. It's cool btw, confusing too.

@Joseph Maynor Thanks for the pic and the vids, I'll watch them later.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Truth Addict

[Shin]

@Truth Addict It will be a belief until you start to see it for yourself yes  

[Truth Addict]

11 minutes ago, Shin said:

@Truth Addict It will be a belief until you start to see it for yourself yes  

Oh my God, this is very profound. And thus I have to become enlightened.

Thank you so much ?

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Oh my God, this is very profound. And thus I have to become enlightened.

Thank you so much ?

lol no, when I say see it for yourself I mean you got to try now.

[Truth Addict]

10 minutes ago, Shin said:

lol no, when I say see it for yourself I mean you got to try now.

It actually makes perfect sense to me. Like when you play video games, what's loading on the screen plus the sounds (what's loaded on the RAM) are what's -you could say- real in the game.

But I don't feel any different, life is magical, it always felt that way to me. Nevertheless, I'm glad to see the true nature of existence.

[Nahm]

9 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

"All beliefs are false"

Isn't that a belief?

This means that some beliefs can be true. Am I right?

There is Truth. So all beliefs are false. Tricky though, cause if you are it, you could never be addicted to it. 

[Truth Addict]

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

There is Truth. So all beliefs are false. Tricky though, cause if you are it, you could never be addicted to it. 

So this is the meal that's not on the menu? Still, beliefs are not false necessarily, I prefer treating them as irrelevant from Truth. Otherwise you shouldn't be here using your PC or whatever to tell me about it. You're here because you believe in something (it might be about me or about you or anyone else). ?

Edited February 11, 2018 by Truth Addict

[Vipassana]

build awareness. Everything is beliefs if taken to that degree however maintaining mindfulness moment to moment and becoming conscious of the fact that the only thing thats true for you in your direct experience is your bodily sensations. If you rationalize concepts using concepts all you're doing is running away from truth.

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, Vipassana said:

build awareness. Everything is beliefs if taken to that degree however maintaining mindfulness moment to moment and becoming conscious of the fact that the only thing thats true for you in your direct experience is your bodily sensations. If you rationalize concepts using concepts all you're doing is running away from truth.

I agree, but what I'm saying is that beliefs are not totally bad. We need beliefs to communicate, build, exercise, etc.. You just can't be here if you don't have any beliefs.

I understand, I'm the consciousness that's conscious of this very moment, given the fact that on psychedelics my consciousness will change, which means nothing really exists. Does that mean also that I need to experience change in my consciousness to understand? Because I understand everything theoretically but I honestly don't feel anything special about it.

[Vipassana]

@Truth Addict Well yeah like i said there's degrees to this "problem". Our very infrastructure of life is built on beliefs. You're here in this website because you believe something. Im typing because I also believe something. Its a circularity you cannot escape, only can become aware of it. So it all boils down to how much energy you spend defending or condemning beliefs. Your theoretical understanding will transcend into direct experience the more you do this work but until then work on your meta beliefs. I.e look back at what you typed.. "beliefs aren't totally bad" "We NEED beliefs" "i honestly dont feel anything special" can you see that all these distinctions are based on some beliefs you hold under the surface level of your mind? We are all Materialists and doing this work is contradictory and paradoxical af. it couldn't be any other way my guy  so the lesson is (for me anyways) is to laugh it off and look forward for more laughters

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict Have you realized / experienced truth?

[Truth Addict]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Truth Addict Have you realized / experienced truth?

I honestly don't know. I'm still living an ordinary life, nothing special happened yet.