Dissolving "me", "i", "ego".......can "me" Dissolve "me"...can "i" Dissolve "i" ?

[daramantus]

8 hours ago, Makis said:

You ask who is aware. Well I would say no one, since it is a "who"-question. But one could also say awareness is aware, but not as a "thing". You mix up perception with awareness. Of course there is a body-mind-organism here looking at the screen, typing this text and there is a perspective here, from which the world is viewed. But that is just a perspective. Just because this perspective cannot be changed for a lifetime, it doesn't mean that that's "me". In a sense I am everybody else too. I am Hitler and gave the order to invade Poland. I am all the passengers who ever died in a plane crash. I am a soldier that fought in the Vietnam war. I am an Indian hunting a buffalo fivehundred years ago. I am you, too. Well ok, this is just language. It is not really "me". It is awareness that is it, always the same awareness, just having many many different perspectives. Sorry man, this is just my personal view - how it is viewed from here. Take it or leave it. 

And by the way I did not say, that awareness is somebody else. There is not something or someone else in control of Makis. 

"Well I would say no one"
You simply avoided the question.
"no one" is a lie.

Obviously I am aware (ME), Stop using "lalala I can't hear you"

"But one could also say awareness is aware, but not as a "thing". "
Awareness is aware but not as a thing, sound a lot of word salad woo woo, be specific and conclusive as you talk. Can you experience being a flower? NO, a rock? NO, can you experience being Empty Space ? NO, You are always stucked within your body? YES. In the same body? YES, you faint and back to which body? YOURS, then who is aware? YOU. Consciousness is YOU (as a thing, separated from the rest, YES) If it wasn't then you'd be everything already, not only in your body. What awareness is aware even means? I don't have idea.
 

"Of course there is a body-mind-organism here looking at the screen, typing this text and there is a perspective here, from which the world is viewed."
and guess what, Of course this "body-mind-organism" is me. I experience every little thing of this body-mind-organism, so this is ME, separated. And If you want to separate you from this body-mind-organism, then you are 100% proving that you believe you are a separated individual entity, because If you are not the body-mind-organism, but you are stucked in your body, Then you are a INDIVIDUAL SOUL (that's what you are claiming. because If not, explain me why you are always going back to the same body, and only you can experience being you?

" In a sense I am everybody else too."
You sound like a delusional hippie,
Nice self delusion.
No, you are not. Neither awareness, Because you are making assumptions out of what you believe it to be, you have no idea what happens after death.

"Sorry man, this is just my personal view - how it is viewed from here. Take it or leave it. "
This is a forum for discussing. No I'm not leaving.  

Edited March 9, 2016 by daramantus

[daramantus]

3 hours ago, 30secs said:

@Grasshopper

you explained it well dude, it's called "awareness" that is true self and cannot be changed because it's "nothingness". The brain should be firing trillions of signals to make sense of self and everything you currently experiencing that makes "you" unreal and just a mind activity. The "Nothingness/You" was there before even the time you were not born and will be forever.

"The "Nothingness/You" was there before even the time you were not born and will be forever."
How do you know that? Do you have any evidence of your statement?

"it's called "awareness" that is true self and cannot be changed because it's "nothingness""
Define "Nothingness"

"The brain should be firing trillions of signals to make sense of self and everything you currently experiencing that makes "you" unreal and just a mind activity"
Are you really trying to solve the "consciousness problem'? lmao,  How you gain consciousness and how you are always being you in the same body? can you explain this? There is a big nobel prize waiting for you.

[Khin]

@daramantus @daramantus@daramantusdaramantus

Great! You obviously have no shield! Like an egg without cover! All the words can attack your core. Instead of defending what you think, why don't you be a little curious of what is going on!? Let me ask you, can you also proof yourself that you really own your body and mind? Well, I already know your answers. You are just the way you are, not the way you choose to be. If any of my words made you angry, know that you are steps behind!

[werlight]

18 hours ago, A way to Actualize said:

This will sound odd to most of you, but I think I realized enlightenment on some level. I am seventeen currently, but it went soo fast. I actually do not know how deep the enlightenment is but I percieve everything from outside in instead inside out. I do not experience the struggles of the ego anymore and there is a peace 24/7 present. I had an enlightenment experience half a year ago and now I followed a teaching that brought I think too fast to this state. There is no 'I' anymore, but the rest goes on; there is only space where a body stands with an outstanding expression. I do not get why I was so afraid to dissolve the ego anymore. I feel like some sort of baby again, like in your first years how you percieve the world. I am amazed why people are doing so much effort for enlightenment while it is too easy. Self-love has been such an easy way, and still is. 

Everything is just more fun, peaceful and loving. The people at first who I hated, can I love. It is not a VIP-ticket, but the ego of others are the most beautiful thing. The ego has such a profound beauty, why not celebrate the ego to let it dissolve? 

At first there was a dence body and I got back to the inside out experience. Now I am a light body where there is no return to the not realized state.

Totally with you  @A way to Actualize  The ego is not something to reject and dissolve!! .. It's something to accept and love deeply as part of who we are.

The only way to enlightenment is Love and it starts by loving yourself. Not rejecting a part of yourself.

[abrakamowse]

21 hours ago, A way to Actualize said:

I had an enlightenment experience half a year ago and now I followed a teaching that brought I think too fast to this state.

What's that teaching you followed? If you can share, of course...

[A way to Actualize]

 

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

What's that teaching you followed? If you can share, of course...

After Leos videos I stumbled on this video.

 

I was in a lot of adversity back then. Then I began watching

 

 

When you watch his videos the teaching automatically is wired in your dna apparently. I have watched all his videos on everything had been so reframed and I applied to teachings, which were really casual. It is like you are not consciously looking for enlightenment but the teachings wired in your DNA and applying the teaching have a result of emptying yourself behind your back. I am still young and the permanent state of percieving a outside in perspective had a result of the fact that I can't totally get the chanche to explore my ego anymore (sex in ego etc.), but it is fine. I can not identify anymore with anything, while I still wanted to explore, but I enjoy everyday. If I am honest, being shamed by saying the word 'I' does not grand you awakening.

 

Life is now a really cool adventure for me. Somehow things pop-up when I have a intuïtion. I was searching for a singer, Three seconds later a singer came to me. Than after some time I needed to talk to him, and he showed up directly after. The word would be instant-manifesting I think. Thoughts become very amazing and creative. I am fascinated by them that such a random thing comes at random. I am not fully enlightened, but enlightenment is realized to a degree were there is no self. There is a body, but no identification. There is joy. My perception has flipped over it seems, from Inside out To outside in is the best I could explain.

It is maybe a kind of shocking thing for an ego, I do not feel the need to share it to classmates, friends and family. I remember being extremely scared of being in unity. Now I strongly realize you can not be fulfilled while in ego for a long time. I am not at a stage were I can sit in a cave all day.

[abrakamowse]

@A way to Actualize  Thank you very much! Several users are telling me that exact same thing about Matt Kahn. I should give it a try.

Very nice experience, Thanks again for sharing it!

[abrakamowse]

43 minutes ago, A way to Actualize said:

It is maybe a kind of shocking thing for an ego, I do not feel the need to share it to classmates, friends and family. 

At this moment you must be a light just talking to them whatever comes to your mind. God always speak through us, and more when you are so aware.

Edited March 9, 2016 by abrakamowse

[A way to Actualize]

23 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

At this moment you must be a light just talking to them whatever comes to your mind. God always speak through us, and more when you are so aware.

that is so fun about it. Every word flows like it comes from my highest wisdom. Applying intentions (Matt Kahn) and the word 'love' becoming popular in Your subconscious mind (Matt Kahn and Teal Swan) will definitely help. You are too a light, maybe there is not the fully discovering of it. Even of you are in ego you are doing everything in your highest evolution, try the video on embracing your humanity from Matt. He will redefine every emotion, so when it pops up, you will be grateful for the emotion.

other peoples ego are not a disease l, why? It is the same when you see a baby and go: it is a disease they are babies, everyone needs to be an adult. Everyone was once in ego so it becomes understandable that people act in that way and sometimes need a bit more time.

Edited March 9, 2016 by A way to Actualize

[Khin]

@Galyna i meant disgusting! Do you thnk you will find something beautiful inside of us? It is reacting to all kinds of things. Heat, cold, etc... Its disgesting, not permanent, doesnt have the way we want it to, it gets sick, it's changing, it's dying, and its funny that most of us are trying to protect it and caring it, taking the stress from it as if it will stay forever. As if we own it. As if it gonna make us happy. The happiness we get is only when that body is comfortable. I used to be very scared of dying. But when I realized this body is not me, and I don't exist, that was HUGE relief. I don't care anything anymore. It's not suicidal mood! Instead i have more compassion for others, i understand others, less anger and something like that! 

[abrakamowse]

@A way to Actualize  Thanks a lot! I will watch them today while commuting back to my home from work! Cool

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by abrakamowse

[abrakamowse]

2 hours ago, A way to Actualize said:

other peoples ego are not a disease l, why? It is the same when you see a baby and go: it is a disease they are babies, everyone needs to be an adult. Everyone was once in ego so it becomes understandable that people act in that way and sometimes need a bit more time.

Ego is needed for us to grow up. It's nice to see how the old "me" or "I" fades away little by little.
:-)

[NariusV]

No you can't become enlightened. What you 'can' do from a human action perspective is to hone your concentration and self awareness (both habits of mind) to the point where you can directly observe the functioning of your own mind's thoughts and emotions. Then observe the distinction between what actually happens 'in reality' from the functioning of your own mental machinations and emotional responses, judgements, etc. Through this direct expereince you can see that you don't exist. At least, not in the sense of existing as a 'sense of self' when you can observe that the components of yourself (individual thoughts and emotional responses operating in habituated patterns) are simply not you. They feel like you, and operate though you, as you, due to a lack of self awareness.

[jjer94]

@daramantus Hi Mr. Skeptic,

Your responses are perfectly valid. I used to be a skeptic too, so I see where you're coming from. Oftentimes, especially on this forum, when we discuss spirituality, there are lots of logical loopholes, contradictions, paradoxes, and the like. And oftentimes (most of the time, actually...) when we discuss enlightenment, seekers will have their cup full of enlightenment-related beliefs and preach them as though they actually have a grounded experience already of what they're talking about. Some examples are when they believe that the ego does not exist, or that suffering does not exist, or that wrongness is not possible. They may believe it, but they don't actually see it yet. So, to make those claims is pretty much the equivalent of holding a sermon in a church. I'd say that's pretty cultish.

The skeptic or philosopher will feel the urge to respond to these seekers and angrily point out their logical contradictions, thinking, Helloooo! Can any of you make sense please? Put away your damn incense and talk to me like a real person! The seeker will respond, Oh, silly skeptic, can't you see that you are awareness, that all is One? Philosopher retorts, I don't see it. All I see is that I'm this body, and I'm stuck here. The world's out there. There is obvious separation. And on and on and on....

Which makes you wonder...what if your skepticism/philosophy is just as cultish as the neo-spirituality?

The thing is, once you finally realize Truth, no words can apply anymore. What you finally realize is that all words are lies. Truth is only relative in the realm of words. Yes, no words, statements, arguments, beliefs, and interpretations about the world are absolutely true. "The ego is an illusion," "All is One," "You are awareness," "You are/are not the body,"  All lies. What I am writing to you right now are lies. And, of course, back on the merry-go-round of the mind, the skeptic may respond, Then what's the point of saying all this if none of it's true? What's the point of communicating? 

Imagine that I'm in your dream somehow. You're telling me about how these woo-woo people keep spouting out this neo-spirituality and it's driving you crazy. It seems so obvious to you that you have a brain, that you are the body, that the world is made of atoms and is solid, that your arguments have a solid foundation. I say to you, "What if you're all wrong? Look, dude, you're in a dream! Your consciousness is dreaming you and this world up, and you are the entire dream!" Let's say you actually take what I'm saying seriously, and you wake up and open your eyes in bed, simply amazed that your consciousness was able to dream up all that stuff. Do you think any argument, any words in that dream, have any absolute truth whatsoever? No! It was all just wisps of dreamstuff. But I had to use words to snap you out of your cultish stupor! I had to use lies to point you in the direction you needed to go. 

Let me lay it on you: You are stuck in your mind, in the realm of words and concepts and arguments. Just like the above analogy, these words are just meaningless wisps of dreamstuff. Even skepticism is an argument, because it is the belief that a certain things are false! But what if I told you that you didn't have to believe that certain things are false, that instead you can see for yourself? What if I told you that you don't have to say anything, think anything, know anything, argue for anything, or believe in anything to see that Absolute Truth is? 

If I was able to create just a little crack of not-knowing in your mind, then I did my job. It will begin to eat up your skepticism, and then maybe, just maybe, you'll be inclined to go look for Truth in your own direct experience instead of perpetually arguing in circles with everyone.

 

[Consept]

It's really hard to get your head around this, in fact it's impossible because anything created in your mind is just a concept and doesn't exist, so any attempt to understand it would be an illusion. 

Also in a practical sense there is nothing you can do to be enlightened because by doing something in attempt to achieve something in the illusion of the future woukd specifically take you out of the present and therefore put of pure being. 

You can't become something you already are and technically there's not even anything to realise, because anything understood on a mental level isn't real. Most enlightened figures say that when they gave up trying is when they became enlightened. I think that's the whole point, you just need to be and let whatever comes flow through you, rather than setting some concept that if you do a,b and c it will lead to enlightenment 

[Consept]

For example, and this is something I'm struggling a little with at the moment, but say for example a thought keeps popping up in your head that you don't like. You can say to yourself I'm gonna get rid of this thought I'm gonna debate it, I'm gonna consciously ignore it, I'm gonna distract myself from it, but actually any resistance you give to it actually traps it and gives more focus to it. Whereas if you do nothing and have no resistance to it, it will eventually flow through you like a cloud. 

I think that's the whole point we don't actually have any control and to experience enlightenment you have to fully let go, setting goals or trying to consciously let go is really just holding on tighter 

[abrakamowse]

We all live different realities, we cant see the truth. And if we see it in an enlightenment experience, we can not explain it in words, that's why no one want to share a "path" to become enlightened because there's no logical path. At least that's what I feel right now.

Another good thing is to be extremely open minded and always seeking for something new, a new perspective is always coming.

[Cuzzo]

On 3/9/2016 at 11:39 PM, daramantus said:

"Well I would say no one"
You simply avoided the question.
"no one" is a lie.

Obviously I am aware (ME), Stop using "lalala I can't hear you"

"But one could also say awareness is aware, but not as a "thing". "
Awareness is aware but not as a thing, sound a lot of word salad woo woo, be specific and conclusive as you talk. Can you experience being a flower? NO, a rock? NO, can you experience being Empty Space ? NO, You are always stucked within your body? YES. In the same body? YES, you faint and back to which body? YOURS, then who is aware? YOU. Consciousness is YOU (as a thing, separated from the rest, YES) If it wasn't then you'd be everything already, not only in your body. What awareness is aware even means? I don't have idea.
 

"Of course there is a body-mind-organism here looking at the screen, typing this text and there is a perspective here, from which the world is viewed."
and guess what, Of course this "body-mind-organism" is me. I experience every little thing of this body-mind-organism, so this is ME, separated. And If you want to separate you from this body-mind-organism, then you are 100% proving that you believe you are a separated individual entity, because If you are not the body-mind-organism, but you are stucked in your body, Then you are a INDIVIDUAL SOUL (that's what you are claiming. because If not, explain me why you are always going back to the same body, and only you can experience being you?

" In a sense I am everybody else too."
You sound like a delusional hippie,
Nice self delusion.
No, you are not. Neither awareness, Because you are making assumptions out of what you believe it to be, you have no idea what happens after death.

"Sorry man, this is just my personal view - how it is viewed from here. Take it or leave it. "
This is a forum for discussing. No I'm not leaving.  

I love you  for stirring things up on this forum even if I dont agree with all of your points. It makes life and perspective fun and interesting  

Edited March 12, 2016 by Cuzzo

[Soulbass]

Instead of "I" say "it"

[Guest]

I feel like all this talk of nothingness taht Tony Parsons and the other people are talking about is missing something. Why do they never talk about love?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO83S-dptiE