Dissolving "me", "i", "ego".......can "me" Dissolve "me"...can "i" Dissolve "i" ?

[fdrakely]

 

I'm asking anyone who would like to comment on this to please first watch the video below before posting, so we are all on the same page. And we can all communicate using the same type of "language". I know it is lengthy, but please watch before commenting. Sorry if that request makes this seem like a country club discussion. Sorry if you are offended by that statement. Ha!

The title is a fancy complicated way of playing with words to rephrase the question - can I become enlightened? - since there really is no "I" or free will then how could anybody become anything? - I know what you're thinking, and just so you know i'm with you, I agree with you, and "i" too want to become enlightened. 
 

 

Tony Parsons (video below) is enlightened. My pretend conversation with him would go something like this...

Me - how can I become enlightened?

Him - there is no you, so you can't become anything.

Me - I understand what you mean on an intellectual level, but I want what you have 

Him - It cannot be understood, it is beyond comprehension. I don't have anything, because "I" doesn't exist. "I" isn't real, it is illusion, "me" cannot get what "me" thinks it wants, because that thing is the end of "me".

Me - since I cannot say me or I, how about, illusion be gone!

Him - illusion is not real 

Me - But for "me" it is real ! What can I do?

Him - You don't exist. There is "no one" to "do" anything. There just IS what IS. 

And what "me" is asking everyone on this forum is - Can "me" commit psychological suicide, so to say. Sorry for the dark terminology, not sure how else to word it. 

 

His description of liberation using words is......"me", sense of self, illusion = constricted energy......liberation = when the constricted energy opens up and merges with the energy that IS (everything). Again, he claims there is nothing anyone can do. He says listening to the message itself is a way of opening the energy. Cheers!
 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by fdrakely

[Grasshopper]

This is why you can't know anything. Because there is no "knowing." What is "knowing?" It's an arising of thoughts saying "I know it." But those are just thoughts. They are thoughts popping up automatically, without control from you, thoughts that are talking to themselves. All of your thought chatter is literally generated from your brain, not you. Think about a computer that is programmed to act like a human. Is this computer program a real person, or is it just simulating thinking and decision-making based on its programming? It's all simulation. And the big secret is that all your thoughts are too. You, asking yourself "can I be enlightened," is a simulation running in your brain. Can a simulation know itself? Can a simulation become enlightened?

But, this "simulation" is all being watched, watched by your real self. And there is a link where the simulation can realize it's being watched by something deeper and understand that it's not real.

So can you become enlightened? No, in the way that the fake "you" (thoughts, feelings, the entire simulation of you) cannot ever be enlightened. But yes, in the way that fake "you" understands the reality of its fake nature. However, your true self (the watcher) remains ever unchanged, so that never really becomes enlightened either. It's already complete, not needed anything. It just is.

FYI, I did sit through the whole video.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Grasshopper

[DayTraderEdward]

Becoming motivated by growth and not being hung up on having to be a certain way is almost a sure-fire way to make progress. 

[Neo]

I looked up Tony Parsons. I think he is saying a lot of the meditation work people on this forum are doing is a bit of a waste of time and that absolutely nothing you can do can bring about enlightenment.

[Neo]

17 hours ago, fdrakely said:

 

@fdrakely I'm not sure if it's the answer you want or were expecting however, I found Tony Parsons a bit scary, I had the feeling of looking at someone with a bit of their soul missing, he would say "ego missing" no doubt, but there was definitely *something* missing.

I feel sure that Leo's videos aren't intending complete death of ego in that the person isn't even functioning on the same planet when not in meditation. i.e. I always expected meditation would make you feel one with the universe when in meditation, not all the time.

[fdrakely]

@Neo I do hear what you're saying. The idea is scary. So far I have seen two other people who talk/act exactly as Tony Parsons ( Naho Owada & Lisa Cairns) - short bits of their talks are below. Let me know what you think

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2016 by fdrakely

[Neo]

In particular the waiting for the words to *come* and then at the end the open mouthed laugh, we have a patient where I work who believes he is King Arthur (part of British folklore if you are from outside the UK) and he has these same mannerisms through his delusional episodes. This is just an observation and not referring to any particular person. 

[Khin]

@fdrakely Actually, you heard of enlightened people saying there's no such thing as entity exists. So in your mind you are thinking, "So, who's going to be enlightened?" Well, No one is. But, did you get it when an enlightened person say that? No! So, the best way to work for enlightenment is being in present moment and noticing reality. For right now, you still exist in your thoughts. You are your thoughts. You can't get to the state of nothing yet. That's reality. So don't think too much of Enlightenment. Otherwise you will start imagining things.

[Galyna]

"the best way to work for enlightenment is being in present moment and noticing reality."

Well, I try to notice the Reality and try to be in the present moment, and? Means, I do something wrong if not Enlightened yet?

Something tells me it is not enough to get a full Enlightenment. Am I wrong?

[Khin]

@Galyna Nothing is wrong. You just need something. Try to put "I" away. And Notice when thoughts come up naturally. That's first step. In Leo's video of Enlightenment experience, he explained he saw nothing behind trees which is because he noticed what was happening right then and there. When you see something, the sense "SEE" comes up and if you don't notice that, generation thoughts come up naturally and become stream of thoughts (Other senses go the same). Another very important thing you can do is, try to think of yourself as very unimportant, useless and dirty body. You are suffering because of this body and now you are trying to escape from it. At least that's how I did!

Edited March 8, 2016 by Khin
Spelling :D

[daramantus]

You must exist in order to say that "you don't exist", so yes, you do exist. So, this is rubbish.. move on..

Quote

2.  There is no you. Hehe. 

Then who is understanding this conversation? who is aware of it and understanding with Its own perspective that differs from other people? Who is understanding the thoughts, ideas beliefs and your own subjectivitity in your mind? Who is this centered "thing" inside Which is understanding and analyzing things? If not YOU? If you say "OHHH IT IS CONSCIOUSNESS" (Still you, because you don't experience being a flower or the wind, or "everything", you are always in your body and always experiencing your own subjectivity so that's you.
You can't say "the brain", because the brain is not some fucking alien in control of you, you can't separate you from your brain, you are one within your brain, and you are also your brain, neurons etc, and the brain just is, the brain is not some alien which is aware and you aren't... NO, the awareness in your brain is you aware, you are aware of your brain cravings, you are aware of your mood and emotions, which happens UTTERLY AND LONELY to you and through you, because only you can experience being you and your emotions.You can't say "It is life, not you" Because now you're stuck in your body, so that's you, and you have also to define "life". Because the only thing that we can know for sure, is our INDIVIDUAL existence (SELF), all the rest is doubtful. cogito ergo sum. I can be skeptic about the world's existence, but I can't lie to my self and say that I don't exist because I know that's rubbish.
so what your absurd statement "there is no you" even means?  = bullshit.

[daramantus]

17 hours ago, Khin said:

@fdrakely Actually, you heard of enlightened people saying there's no such thing as entity exists. So in your mind you are thinking, "So, who's going to be enlightened?" Well, No one is. But, did you get it when an enlightened person say that? No! So, the best way to work for enlightenment is being in present moment and noticing reality. For right now, you still exist in your thoughts. You are your thoughts. You can't get to the state of nothing yet. That's reality. So don't think too much of Enlightenment. Otherwise you will start imagining things.

You are obviously not your thoughts, since you create them, and you have to separate unconscious thoughts from conscious thoughts. Thoughts are peripheral details from you, (self), we differ from thoughts, that's your unique self conscious perspective, and most of the unconscious thoughts are basically old memories playing on you because of painfull emotions from the past. You created them from experience. You are the doer as there is no man in the sky pulling the strings, no alien controlling you, no alien in your brain, only you, and you being influenced by emotions. That's all. 

And when these type of memories appear in you , unconsciously you direct them, analyze them, can think about them on your own self perspective.

Actually everytime someone ask you to remember something you are using your own power of intention in the moment to force YOUR OWN brain to provide the memory for you, the delay is a proof, you are prior it. That's a basic example of you.

Thoughts are peripheral details. Your UNIQUE INDIVIDUAL self is the only thing you can be pretty sure it is 100% real.

[daramantus]

8 hours ago, Makis said:

No, in my opinion you are not wrong. I tried this for years, too. When you try to really stay present for a longer period of time you always get distracted by thoughts, sensations, feelings, phantasies. It is very hard to stay present completely for lets say more than two minutes. For an enlightened master like Eckhart it is easy of course, because he has already  gone through a transformational process. I recommend to you to practice other meditation techniques as well. Of course one has to remark here, that those other meditation techniques (zazen, shikantaza etc.) will not give you a guarantee for enlightenment.

These are all type of unconscious processes within your own self (from emotions and your own mind in the role). From your own self you can eliminate all of these problems. And change them for others, according to your true self (true one that you want to become or already are) and relieve suffering

Edited March 8, 2016 by daramantus

[A way to Actualize]

This will sound odd to most of you, but I think I realized enlightenment on some level. I am seventeen currently, but it went soo fast. I actually do not know how deep the enlightenment is but I percieve everything from outside in instead inside out. I do not experience the struggles of the ego anymore and there is a peace 24/7 present. I had an enlightenment experience half a year ago and now I followed a teaching that brought I think too fast to this state. There is no 'I' anymore, but the rest goes on; there is only space where a body stands with an outstanding expression. I do not get why I was so afraid to dissolve the ego anymore. I feel like some sort of baby again, like in your first years how you percieve the world. I am amazed why people are doing so much effort for enlightenment while it is too easy. Self-love has been such an easy way, and still is. 

Everything is just more fun, peaceful and loving. The people at first who I hated, can I love. It is not a VIP-ticket, but the ego of others are the most beautiful thing. The ego has such a profound beauty, why not celebrate the ego to let it dissolve? 

At first there was a dence body and I got back to the inside out experience. Now I am a light body where there is no return to the not realized state.

Edited March 8, 2016 by A way to Actualize

[Khin]

@daramantus As long as you think you are creating something (thoughts, actions), you will never be enlightened. But People have NO Choice! That's what they are. They can't chose to think. But thoughts happened itself. You can't even chose to understand what I'm saying right now. There's no YOU to create anything but they appears from the cause of external experiences. If people can choose to think, why are they suffering? I know I can't make you to understand and you can't make yourself to understand this until the time come.

[abrakamowse]

40 minutes ago, Makis said:

And by the way I did not say, that awareness is somebody else. There is not something or someone else in control of Makis. 

My awareness is controlling you, but you didn't notice it.

[30secs]

@Grasshopper

you explained it well dude, it's called "awareness" that is true self and cannot be changed because it's "nothingness". The brain should be firing trillions of signals to make sense of self and everything you currently experiencing that makes "you" unreal and just a mind activity. The "Nothingness/You" was there before even the time you were not born and will be forever.

Edited March 9, 2016 by 30secs

[Galyna]

On 3/8/2016 at 9:13 PM, Khin said:

@Galyna Nothing is wrong. You just need something. Try to put "I" away. And Notice when thoughts come up naturally. That's first step. In Leo's video of Enlightenment experience, he explained he saw nothing behind trees which is because he noticed what was happening right then and there. When you see something, the sense "SEE" comes up and if you don't notice that, generation thoughts come up naturally and become stream of thoughts (Other senses go the same). Another very important thing you can do is, try to think of yourself as very unimportant, useless and dirty body. You are suffering because of this body and now you are trying to escape from it. At least that's how I did!

Thank you, Khin  for you response. 

That is a good way to practice it, I guess I will try doing so. Maybe we should accept our bodies as they are, why do you call it "dirty"? It is just a body, though . IMHO, I am suffering because of my mind, right? Body is just there.

[Galyna]

So you have been trying this for years, may I ask you about the outcome?  or you are still in process?

[daramantus]

8 hours ago, Khin said:

@daramantus As long as you think you are creating something (thoughts, actions), you will never be enlightened. But People have NO Choice! That's what they are. They can't chose to think. But thoughts happened itself. You can't even chose to understand what I'm saying right now. There's no YOU to create anything but they appears from the cause of external experiences. If people can choose to think, why are they suffering? I know I can't make you to understand and you can't make yourself to understand this until the time come.

As long as you think you are creating something (thoughts, actions), you will never be enlightened
First, I don't want to be " enlightened"  because I don't believe in such a thing (pure religious woo woo), and I'm a real skeptic.
"
But People have NO Choice"
They obviously have

"They can't chose to think. "
(No, Then who choose? a God in the sky? A alien in control of you? A mysterious super life conscious woo woo energy? A super mysterious invisible woo woo deepak field of consciousness which knows what is a chocolate and what is a tea, then It chooses for you the tea?
 Give me a break dude, this belongs to walt disney

"But thoughts happened itself."
I already show you why thoughts don't happen by itself (whatever that means) what is a thought, a alien? lmao. Want me to go deeper in this issue?

"You can't even chose to understand what I'm saying right now"
?? You make no sense dude, you have no proof of what you are saying you are just babbling here using fallacy and saying "You can't do this or that" without any evidence of such, you are just saying what YOU believe to be true. If I can't choose what to understand, then who does? If you say that there is something in my brain that can do that (This is still me, because I'm not separated from my brain and I'm also my brain)
So what is it, a big alien? 

"There's no YOU to create anything but they appears from the cause of external experiences"
So "creating things" is an independent entity which is not me but which decides what a body is going to do which is not me, despite me feeling that I am this entity and that I am choosing what to do. Which means I exist. 
YOU ARE HIGH. FINISH THE CHEETOS AND GO TO SLEEP. STOP ATTEMPTING PHILOSOPHY

If people can choose to think, why are they suffering?
And who told you that people are "suffering"?
I'm sure you are brainwashed by these new fake radical neo-advaita teachers (tony parsons, lisa cairns, etc) who keep repeating the word "suffering" "suffering" "suffering" "suffering" , as If there was a "world of suffering" and the only escape is following their cult/religion of "enlightenment. I can quote thousands and thousands of people 100% happy and full of life which never heard anything of this non dual nonsense.
Your happiness is not everyone's happiness dude. 
The only people who might be suffering are you guys, srsly, suffering from this mental nonsense. You sound like a  religious lunatic.
wake up, you are brainwashed.

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by daramantus