Explain the Void to me

[StephenK]

I've heard many people talk about the 'void' on this site, and I am curious as to what it is exactly. I experienced something life changing that think that was similar to the void when I was 16 years old (11 years ago). Due to a particularly rough patch in my life, I remember searching my mind for any semblance of 'self'. Anything I clung to seemed to disappear right before me and all that remained was this infinite blackness that seemed to have a gravity to it (a gravity made of a sense of oblivion), coming from all angles. No escape. I remember walking in a park one evening, and just crawled into a nearby bush, lay down in the foetal-position and started screaming internally. Anyway, since then I've had Depersonalization Disorder, and reality still seems kind of 'off' with a lingering sense of unease underneath it. Was this the void?  

[snowleopard]

It is void of the explainable or nameable. Even 'void' is one word too many. Depersonalization Disorder seems like a psychiatric term applied to the falling away of fixated egoic self-identification. Alas, it is the burden of a new fixated self-identity ... 'someone with a disorder.'  That too must be dispelled.

[Joseph Maynor]

@StephenK If you meditate you’ll locate it.  

[Faceless]

If your mind is ‘full’ of its conditioning then any attempt to capture emptiness is a movement from fullness therefore not empty. Only empty can be empty. 

To project a concept, idea, of emptiness is not emptiness. 

See this for yourself friends??

Edited February 9, 2018 by Faceless

[Dodo]

The void is the null dimension, the only thing that is real, it's closer than close to you, because it is who you and all of us are at the deepest level.

It is the shapeless, colourless, propertyless subject of your experience. The light that shines and makes your experience knowable.

The Void is God. To the Ego it's hell.

[cirkussmile]

Lean into it and surrender. What you call void is ever present and try to stay conscious of it 24/7

[Nahm]

?

[Gopackgo]

I find this very interesting. It seems to me that depersonalization disorder could be closely tied to a non-dual awakening, although I know that maybe it is not. I have always wondered if it is just a difference in perspective or it is something else entirely. Would you mind explaining what it is about reality that seems off to you? Is it the unknowability of it, or does it seem like a lack of solidity that makes you uneasy, or is it something else entirely?

You don't have to respond if you don't feel comfortable, but I am curious about this. Thanks.

Also, Im not trying to invalidate your experience or feelings, or to say it is an awakening gone wrong. I am sure that what you have experienced has been unpleasant. I am just curious.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Gopackgo

[StephenK]

18 minutes ago, Gopackgo said:

I find this very interesting. It seems to me that depersonalization disorder could be closely tied to a non-dual awakening, although I know that maybe it is not. I have always wondered if it is just a difference in perspective or it is something else entirely. Would you mind explaining what it is about reality that seems off to you? Is it the unknowability of it, or does it seem like a lack of solidity that makes you uneasy, or is it something else entirely?

You don't have to respond if you don't feel comfortable, but I am curious about this. Thanks.

The sense of 'dread/creepiness' is something that feels as if it is embedded in all of reality -- almost like space itself has an energy to it, or that everything I see and think is a form of illusion. So in that sense, a lack of solidity would be an accurate description. This feeling is very subtle nowadays though thank god. 

@Nahm Yes, the feeling is one of being stuck between two worlds so to speak. Thanks for the supportive words.

I've 'phased' out of this feeling several times before, but only for a few seconds at a time,

[Gopackgo]

@StephenK  Thank you so much for sharing that. I think you are very wise to investigate this further and to confront the feeling as a sensation and not just a mental interpretation.  I will share what the "void" means to me as best I can. There are many angles to it, so this is just how it appears to me.

The void to me is the recognition of absolute subjectivity. It is realizing that because reality is composed entirely of perspectives, and mediated through sensation and perception, we have absolutely no access to whatever is out there except as it is constructed in awareness. This means that whatever is "out there" is formless, and the way it appears to us is not how it naturally exists. By formless, I mean it has no set definition, and is absolutely free to appear in any way. In fact, if there is an "out there" no life form has ever accessed it. In truth, the world we experience as the outer world is a total construction of the brain. Experience as a whole is actually one seamless output, but we seem to separate it into an inner and outer world. This creates the illusion that we (as selves) are moving through the world, and trying to accomplish life. In reality, in a way, it is more like we are walking through our own mind/mental construction. This means that we are literally everything that we interact with, we are all the problems that we see. We are everything. Beyond that, reality is completely unknowable, because whatever is out there is entirely undefined. From our perspective it appears as it does, but really, if you imagine somehow separating yourself from your own consciousness, and experiencing reality directly, you come to the conclusion that this would be impossible, because without consciousness, nothing would appear. 

In that way, reality lacks objective solidity, because it is entirely dependent on the perspective that is viewing it. This means that contrary to popular belief, there is absolutely no ground from which someone can justify their beliefs as absolute, because that would require that there is an objective reality that exists independent of the person in question. That just isn't the case. Another way to think about it is: If there even was an objective reality, from whose perspective would it appear? A human? An ant? An atom? A quark?

So the void is the nothing that contains everything. It is absolutely undefinable, and awareness in inseparable from it. It is one thing. Nothing arises independent of the perspective that contains it. That groundlessness is what can cause a lot of anxiety, because it undercuts the basis of identity, which in my mind is generally composed of beliefs that are projected as absolute truths. It actually means that you are simultaneously nothing, and everything. Any distinction between the 2 can only be a conceptual distinction created by the mind in order to ground itself and build a framework of beliefs, so that it can better predict/plan/interpret the world. The amazing thing is that the bottom can fall out of the reliance on those projections, and functioning can still happen. 

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Gopackgo said:

So the void is the nothing that contains everything. It is absolutely undefinable, and awareness in inseparable from it.

@Gopackgo This sums it up nicely.

[StephenK]

17 hours ago, Gopackgo said:

@StephenK  Thank you so much for sharing that. I think you are very wise to investigate this further and to confront the feeling as a sensation and not just a mental interpretation.  I will share what the "void" means to me as best I can. There are many angles to it, so this is just how it appears to me.

The void to me is the recognition of absolute subjectivity. It is realizing that because reality is composed entirely of perspectives, and mediated through sensation and perception, we have absolutely no access to whatever is out there except as it is constructed in awareness. This means that whatever is "out there" is formless, and the way it appears to us is not how it naturally exists. By formless, I mean it has no set definition, and is absolutely free to appear in any way. In fact, if there is an "out there" no life form has ever accessed it. In truth, the world we experience as the outer world is a total construction of the brain. Experience as a whole is actually one seamless output, but we seem to separate it into an inner and outer world. This creates the illusion that we (as selves) are moving through the world, and trying to accomplish life. In reality, in a way, it is more like we are walking through our own mind/mental construction. This means that we are literally everything that we interact with, we are all the problems that we see. We are everything. Beyond that, reality is completely unknowable, because whatever is out there is entirely undefined. From our perspective it appears as it does, but really, if you imagine somehow separating yourself from your own consciousness, and experiencing reality directly, you come to the conclusion that this would be impossible, because without consciousness, nothing would appear. 

In that way, reality lacks objective solidity, because it is entirely dependent on the perspective that is viewing it. This means that contrary to popular belief, there is absolutely no ground from which someone can justify their beliefs as absolute, because that would require that there is an objective reality that exists independent of the person in question. That just isn't the case. Another way to think about it is: If there even was an objective reality, from whose perspective would it appear? A human? An ant? An atom? A quark?

So the void is the nothing that contains everything. It is absolutely undefinable, and awareness in inseparable from it. It is one thing. Nothing arises independent of the perspective that contains it. That groundlessness is what can cause a lot of anxiety, because it undercuts the basis of identity, which in my mind is generally composed of beliefs that are projected as absolute truths. It actually means that you are simultaneously nothing, and everything. Any distinction between the 2 can only be a conceptual distinction created by the mind in order to ground itself and build a framework of beliefs, so that it can better predict/plan/interpret the world. The amazing thing is that the bottom can fall out of the reliance on those projections, and functioning can still happen. 

Thanks for your description of it. Seems to resonate well with my some part of my understanding of it. I hope to see it more clearly for what it is (or isn't).

[Gopackgo]

@StephenK To be honest, I feel like the concept of the void itself is really more to emphasize uncertainty and unknowability than anything else. Its about groundlessness. Thats why I was so interested in why that seems to appear to you as dread, and not solid. I mean thats clearly a projection (like everything else), but for a lot of people, seeing the nature of reality is a release from needing to defend positions. On the other hand, I have had moments (especially right after realizing this) where I was scared because I felt that I could no longer distinguish what was real, and I was scared that I might have been going insane. That passed and settled into groundlessness. What all this means to me is that because you are willing to confront this, it is likely that those feelings will fade. 

I think its scary because an objective reality is the very basis of identity. It is where the self gets a foothold to project/distinguish/ and criticize reality. Realizing that is a load of shit is obviously deeply disturbing.

[abrakamowse]

The Void As Contemplative Experience

http://paulbrunton.org/notebooks/23/8