Either you are enlightened or not enlightened

[Shanmugam]

2 hours ago, Quanty said:

Dear Shanmugam, tell me you can Sing  and we talk about Enlightenment

Blessings

Welcome to the forum ..

Sorry, I didn't really understand what you said though. By the way, I am not a native speaker of English. English is my second language. So, I am not familiar with many expressions or colloquial phrases..

[snowleopard]

@Shanmugam Can there be a falling away of all fixated self-identities, such as someone who is subject to not getting it, and yes, someone who is getting it?

Edited February 8, 2018 by snowleopard

[Shanmugam]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Shanmugam Thanks for everything you shared here so openly.?

You are welcome buddy

[Shanmugam]

7 minutes ago, snowleopard said:

@Shanmugam Can there be a falling away of all fixated self-identities, such as someone who is subject to not getting it, and yes, someone who is getting it?

Can you please elaborate? I am not sure if it is a coincidence but this is the second post in a row that I am replying to, which somehow makes me realize that I still have to improve my English comprehension.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Shanmugam

[snowleopard]

@Shanmugam  Rephrasing the question, would you agree that so-called enlightenment is the falling away of all fixated self-identification, not only the 'someone' who is not getting it, but the 'someone' who is getting it?  As well, does there not seem to be in these discussions a lot of self-identification as 'someone' who is subject to the judgements of other self-identities?

[Shanmugam]

36 minutes ago, snowleopard said:

@Shanmugam  Rephrasing the question, would you agree that so-called enlightenment is the falling away of all fixated self-identification, not only the 'someone' who is not getting it, but the 'someone' who is getting it?  As well, does there not seem to be in these discussions a lot of self-identification as 'someone' who is subject to the judgements of other self-identities?

Ok.. I think I understand what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong.

A person who is enlightened is certainly not identified with an 'enlightened identity'. A person who still considers himself as 'enlightened one' is still stuck in an identification and certainly not liberated yet. But please note than I am talking about something which goes on inside a person's mind, not something that a person says. It is very important to understand the difference between the two.

Because, one thing that I am noticing again and again in this forum is this: People very quickly tend to assume something about others. And I feel this has gone way out of control. .

As I have mentioned in a couple of earlier posts in this thread, an 'enlightened person' is indeed an oxymoron. Because, this so called enlightened person is not identified with anything; He doesn't even see himself as a person. As far as he is concerned, he is absolutely nothing, just an emptiness. He doesn't have any kind of need to define himself to himself. Does this make sense?

But I will tell you what someone will come and say. Suddenly somebody will quote this message and say that all these are my beliefs, all these are concepts that I am identified with or that I am projecting something on something. . This is what I mean when I say 'people are so busy in making assumptions about other people'.

What happened in my life was like coming to a full circle. So, to be really honest with you, whatever that people are trying to do here are something I myself have done at some point. And this is very clear and obvious to me. There is no question about it. .

But I understand. At every step in one's journey, there is always a temptation to show off at least a little bit of what has happened in one's progress. They are probably very excited about their new recent insight, that they somehow assume that almost every person that they interact with still haven't seen that new insight yet. In other words, there is an overconfidence which implies 'You people haven't understood what I have understood'.

And this probably happens again and again in every step of one's journey. Because, the duality is very deep rooted. Many teachers would say 'You can awaken this very moment'; but that is only a pointer! It is only said to indicate that what they are searching for is already there.. It is a gentle reminder to make sure that a person always understands enlightenment as not something that has to be gained or achieved.

But in reality, this apparent journey of a seeker is actually too long; and there is always a resistance to the progress at every step. Almost at every step of the journey, the ego tries to take credit for it and somehow reassert the existence of the illusory self. It doesn't want to go away that easily. It wants to say to the world 'I got it'!...

Have I answered your question completely?

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Shin]

So on point @Shanmugam

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Shin

[snowleopard]

4 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Have I answered your question completely?

You seem to have mistaken me for 'someone' who is looking for complete answers  

[Shanmugam]

6 minutes ago, snowleopard said:

You seem to have mistaken me for 'someone' who is looking for complete answers  

Your last post was indeed a question that ended with the question mark. And I am just making sure that the question has been understood properly and answered completely.

In other words, I am making sure that the communication is properly happening between both of us.

[snowleopard]

@Shanmugam  Your answer was clear ...  and your command of english as a second language is admirable. These queries could be considered as simply rhetorical, but can there be a state wherein all one sees in others is an individuated expression of Awareness -- for lack of a better name for that which defies all names -- self-identifying as something else in lieu of that? 

[Dodo]

A better way to put it is:

There are consciously awake and unconsciously awake beings.

We are all awake. We are awareness/awakeness itself. We don't need to know it to be it. But it's good to know our true nature

Edited February 8, 2018 by Dodo

[Dodo]

28 minutes ago, Shin said:

So on point @Shanmugam

 

Then someone disturbs his meditation and he goes mental! 

[Shin]

1 minute ago, Dodo said:

Then someone disturbs his meditation and he goes mental! 

«YOU KILLED MY ENLIGHTENMENT !!!!!! WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS SO MADDENING ???!!!»

[Ocean]

@SOUL There is a difference between negation and being negative. You can only really negate about whats it's not as talking about it is fruitless - as it leads to more seeking. Negation leads to grasping in many ways as it reveals it without requiring to know what it is. All you really need to focus on whats it's not.

It's also dawned on me and reminded me something which I have been at fault too. That is when talking about all this one has to be very delicate with what one says. It's said that one should even wait 10 years before trying to teach others because there is still the settling in period and we may be expressing things in a way that is a disservice rather than service.

Say the wrong word to the wrong person and you'll end up discussing how dirty the fingernail is rather than their direction to see the lightness of moon oneself.

And yep, my finger definitely needs a manicure, as do most.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Ocean

[Dodo]

3 minutes ago, Shin said:

«YOU KILLED MY ENLIGHTENMENT !!!!!! WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS SO MADDENING ???!!!»

"But Mooooom i was just reaching enlightenment #4, I'll clean my room later!!" ?

[Shanmugam]

21 minutes ago, snowleopard said:

@Shanmugam  Your answer was clear ...  and your command of english as a second language is admirable. These queries could be considered as simply rhetorical, but can there be a state wherein all one sees in others is an individuated expression of Awareness -- for lack of a better name for that which defies all names -- self-identifying as something else in lieu of that? 

Everything that is happening is indeed the expression of the truth or the absolute reality itself... There is no question about it.

When anybody thinks, says or does something, it is indeed an expression of the absolute. But there is this wrong notion 'I am the doer', which is so deep rooted.

To put it in the language of a devotee like Rumi, St.John of Cross or Kabir, whatever seems to be happening is the divine expressing itself, a play of the absolute that happens according to God's will. But this God is just another name for the absolute. It is not a person but a poetic personification.

[snowleopard]

@Shanmugam  Thanks for playing ... And now, switching dreamworlds, some self-identification as some body in need of a sleep is slipping in  _/\_ 

[Shanmugam]

42 minutes ago, Ocean said:

 It's said that one should even wait 10 years before trying to teach others because there is still the settling in period and we may be expressing things in a way that is a disservice rather than service.

 

Excellent!

Actually, an enlightened person doesn't really decide to become a teacher one day. It just happens that way. If you are walking on a street and if you see a person who seems to have lost his way, your natural response will be to show him the way. It all starts very gradually like that.

Becoming a guru may sound attractive to a seeker but after enlightenment it will be clearly seen not only as one of the most boring jobs but talking about it to others would seem to be an impossibility. This is not an exaggeration.

I have read a quote somewhere it goes like this: Before enlightenment, a person has a lot of idea on what to teach, but he has not really seen through the illusion yet. But after enlightenment, a person has no idea what to say about it...

This is one of the other reasons why I actually opened this thread. If a person thinks enlightenment is not binary but  thinks that  there are multiple levels of enlightenment, he will think 'ok, I understand many things that I never understood before. And anyway, I will keep reaching higher and higher levels of enlightenment and it doesn't end. So Let me start preaching others!'... But this is not how everything begins. I think Eckhart Tolle is quite honest about how he became a teacher. He talks about it in the book 'The Power of Now' in the beginning. If you read that you will get an idea.

Of course, people who have already started teaching will object to this. That will be the most expected response. That is why I took my time to articulate as much as I could  in this thread to give some idea about how enlightenment really feels like.

 

[Shin]

Isn't boredom impossible if you're centered ? 

[MarkusSweden]

4 minutes ago, Shin said:

Isn't boredom impossible if you're centered ? 

How do you mean Shin? Hope you're feeling good today btw. 

Do you mean centered as a feeing of wholesomeness? 

Otherwise I think of awareness and enlightenment as something DEcentralised but yet balanced if you know what I mean. 

It's infinite and therefore beyond notion of space/no space and therefore not centralised. But it's still a perfect geometry so to speak. (infinite)

As soon as you rest in that awareness, it's impossible to be bored, yes, that's how I feel it as well.