Either you are enlightened or not enlightened

[Ocean]

1 hour ago, Shin said:

Well yeah, but you won't experience that.

If you're talking about the dark night of the soul, not everyone goes through this (from what I read).

Get rid of that '...of the soul' bit. 'Dark night' is all you need as an expression as it dosen't support ideas which could be incorrect.

Looking into the void has to happen but depending on how one has approached it, could be a shrug or a longer adjustment. It will pass nonesless leaving the 'sunny day' of everything.

[Timotheus]

38 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Timotheus WHere did the ‘infinite amount of suffering’ idea come from?

Not from direct experience, I have to admit. But isn't this the case? At least my logic comes to this conclusion.

[Shin]

14 minutes ago, Ocean said:

Get rid of that '...of the soul' bit. 'Dark night' is all you need as an expression as it dosen't support ideas which could be incorrect.

Looking into the void has to happen but depending on how one has approached it, could be a shrug or a longer adjustment. It will pass nonesless leaving the 'sunny day' of everything.

I'm just using the most common term used ...

 

[Nahm]

@Timotheus What are you talking about dude? I don’t get it.

[Shin]

11 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Timotheus What are you talking about dude? I don’t get it.

I think he thinks that you can experience the absolute suffering entirely for a lifetime, and not just as a ritual passage.

@Ocean We could say there is the one soul

The beloved !

RUMI REINCARNATION INCOMING !

Edited February 7, 2018 by Shin

[Ocean]

@Shin  Sorry Then again...it's the little things that we miss that can have a big impact.

In that case, can there be an individual soul, if there is no separate self right now?

Sounds like an ego/personality to me that wants to remain even after death.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Ocean

[Ocean]

15 minutes ago, Shin said:

 

@Ocean We could say there is the one soul

The beloved !

RUMI REINCARNATION INCOMING !

Maybe, but that's not how it will be applied by most.

It's '...my dark night of ...my soul'.

People are having them left-right-and-center these days anyway so maybe something new is required of the recognition of being nothing and coming to terms with that.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Ocean

[Timotheus]

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Timotheus What are you talking about dude? I don’t get it.

I see it Like that: Seeing the absolute = being everything(and being everyone). Being everything=experiencing every kind of suffering possible.

But maybe I should just let go, I see this doesn't really do any good.

[Ocean]

@Timotheus Not a fan of using others to make a point but it's a nice quote:

 

“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing,
Love is knowing I am everything,
and between the two my life moves.”

― Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Vingger]

To me enlightenment is every second a mistery

 

[Shanmugam]

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

@Shanmugam  So if I have a different personal experience of it than you say it is are you going to tell me I'm "not"?

Absolute truth is the same for everyone... I am not sure what you mean by a 'different experience'... Give me an example..

[SOUL]

38 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Absolute truth is the same for everyone... I am not sure what you mean by a 'different experience'... Give me an example..

So "the same" as you say this "absolute truth" is?

[Nahm]

@Timotheus suffering is illusion.  absolute is reality.   experiencing absolute reveals this. I could not possibly recomend it enough.  

[Shanmugam]

11 minutes ago, SOUL said:

So "the same" as you say this "absolute truth" is?

Your question is not clear to me...

When you feel no separation from the rest of the existence, when you don't have a boundary in your experience that creates an 'I' and an 'other', when you no longer feel trapped inside an identity,  when you feel no conflict or split inside the mind, when you feel fulfilled and in peace,  when there are forgiveness and acceptance and when you also realize that all these words that I have mentioned so far still haven't captured the truth, the seeking has ended.

 

[SOUL]

9 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Your question is not clear to me...

When you feel no separation from the rest of the existence, when you don't have a boundary in your experience that creates an 'I' and an 'other', when you no longer feel trapped inside an identity,  when you feel no conflict or split inside the mind, when you feel fulfilled and in peace,  when there are forgiveness and acceptance and when you also realize that all these words that I have mentioned so far still haven't captured the truth, the seeking has ended.

 

Well, you are describing many varieties aspects of this "absolute truth" and "enlightenment", even in this passage that I quote here as well as in the opening post and throughout the thread.

Does everyone's experience of it have to mirror your descriptions exactly or you will say they are "not"?

[Shanmugam]

4 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Well, you are describing many varieties aspects of this "absolute truth" and "enlightenment", even in this passage that I quote here as well as in the opening post and throughout the thread.

Does everyone's experience of it have to mirror your descriptions exactly or you will say they are "not"?

First of all, I don't know any foolproof way to confirm somebody else's enlightenment. And anybody who has realized the truth wouldn't be looking for my validation either. So, there is no need for such a question.  Second, the way they describe it can be different depending on their word choices, the meaning they give to those words and the ability to articulate. But when someone describes how they experience the reality every moment,  I have many times noticed the truth and authenticity of what they are saying. The words don't have to be same but they can still hint what they are pointing to. 

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

First of all, I don't know any foolproof way to confirm somebody else's enlightenment. And anybody who has realized the truth wouldn't be looking for my validation either. So, there is no need for such a question.  Second, the way they describe it can be different depending on their word choices, the meaning they give to those words and the ability to articulate. But when someone describes how they experience the reality every moment,  I have many times noticed the truth and authenticity of what they are saying. The words don't have to be same but they can still hint what they are pointing to. 

Ok, so you say it's either you are or you are no tand there are no increments or degrees of it, another may say it isn't like that at all.

As an example, there is no binary on-off position to enlightenment at all, that it's always there, we are always enlightened and there are many incremental degrees of awakening to that ever present enlightenment with all of those degrees still being enlightenment.

That's very much different than your description, not just a different word choice or different articulation of it, it's completely different.

So can these be this same "absolute truth" and "enlightenment"?

[Faceless]

The description through ‘thought’ is never the described ‘what is or the actual’ 

 When we see that there is no experiencer experiencing an experience but only attention or observation of itself. This is liberation from the illusion that the seperate self is not actual or a reality, or is just a image constructed by many other images. To see that the self is only a manifestation of thought. 

If this fact that the experiencer is the experienced is seen, grasped, comprehended, then ends the conflict between the thinker and the thought. This is liberation. Freedom from the illusion of the seperate self. 

 

[Faceless]

Did I explain that clearly ??

My son is jumping on my head as write this lol 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

The deeper this is seen with ones whole being determines the degree of freedom. 

And maybe even headlessness?