Merely an automaton

[Thanatos13]

Life feels like an empty void to me and I’m just counting the days until the enternal sleep in the end. 

I have nothing that I desire to do, mostly just habits that carry themselves out. There is no deep desire that I long for like being a musician, an artist, or a dancer, nothing that was a dream I had that got sidelined. 

It seems that no matter what I do or attempt it all just feels empty in the end, the crushing weight of nothingness around me. I don’t have dreams to follow like other people, I feel like a cold machine just moving around. I feel disconnected from the people around me who have things to live for and achieve. 

Some days I long for a mechanical body to fit what my soul is like.

[StephenK]

Sounds like your mind is filled with aversion to meaninglessness. If so, you've got work to do if you wish to be liberated of that aversion. Meaninglessness does not logically imply unpleasantness -- that is an inference made by your mind. If you're not experiencing aversion to meaninglessness however, then what is the problem?

[Nahm]

@Thanatos13 You undermined yourself, shot yourself in the foot, long ago, and now you are feeling the effects of it. You fell for some philosophy about this “nothingness” this “void”. All you have to do, is admit to yourself, that you have not actually ever experienced this “nothingness” this “void”. You constructed an idea of it in your head, and you are believing that idea.

It’s just an idea, it holds no value, no weight, and it is FLAT OUT WRONG.

What’s you have missed, because you have not experienced the “void” for yourself, is that it is not a void of nothingness. It is SO much more than that.

Can you admit this error to yourself though? That’s the only question. When you do, you’ll be free of it. Then, day by day, things will get better. 

Be wrong. It’s deliciously liberating. Choose yourself, choose you happiness... who cares about being right? Thinking you’re right that it’s all this meaningless void of nothingness - that’s just some bullshit you got from some shithead, it’s unequivocally wrong. 

When a master refers to God as Nothing, it is because they have experienced God, and they know what you do not. Don’t mistake their meaning for “Nothing” to be your meaning for “Nothing”. 

Before you type and spout off about how right you are about your nihilism, just pause for like literally one minute first. A MINUTE, that’s all I’m asking. I know you got a minute bro.

This path you’re on blows dude. It fucking blows. It’s taken you straight into the depression. I know this because I did the same exact thing. You’re doing it, and it feels terrible because you think it’s the fault of the reality you are in. It’s not. It’s your fault. Stop bullshitting yourself. Begin to free your mind instead. 

There is a man on youtube named Les Brown. Just sit and listen to him. You can do this. You can do anything you want. You just need a little help in seeing this is already the case. Want for yourself man. You deserve to be happy, you deserve joy in your heart, you are worthy of everything. Whole Universe got your back, all you have to do is take one step. 

[Thanatos13]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Thanatos13 You undermined yourself, shot yourself in the foot, long ago, and now you are feeling the effects of it. You fell for some philosophy about this “nothingness” this “void”. All you have to do, is admit to yourself, that you have not actually ever experienced this “nothingness” this “void”. You constructed an idea of it in your head, and you are believing that idea.

It’s just an idea, it holds no value, no weight, and it is FLAT OUT WRONG.

What’s you have missed, because you have not experienced the “void” for yourself, is that it is not a void of nothingness. It is SO much more than that.

Can you admit this error to yourself though? That’s the only question. When you do, you’ll be free of it. Then, day by day, things will get better. 

Be wrong. It’s deliciously liberating. Choose yourself, choose you happiness... who cares about being right? Thinking you’re right that it’s all this meaningless void of nothingness - that’s just some bullshit you got from some shithead, it’s unequivocally wrong. 

When a master refers to God as Nothing, it is because they have experienced God, and they know what you do not. Don’t mistake their meaning for “Nothing” to be your meaning for “Nothing”. 

Before you type and spout off about how right you are about your nihilism, just pause for like literally one minute first. A MINUTE, that’s all I’m asking. I know you got a minute bro.

This path you’re on blows dude. It fucking blows. It’s taken you straight into the depression. I know this because I did the same exact thing. You’re doing it, and it feels terrible because you think it’s the fault of the reality you are in. It’s not. It’s your fault. Stop bullshitting yourself. Begin to free your mind instead. 

There is a man on youtube named Les Brown. Just sit and listen to him. You can do this. You can do anything you want. You just need a little help in seeing this is already the case. Want for yourself man. You deserve to be happy, you deserve joy in your heart, you are worthy of everything. Whole Universe got your back, all you have to do is take one step. 

I am afraid I cannot buy that. 

I have experienced the void, the sheer emptiness and nullity. It’s jot something I can put into words really, but it wasn’t a good feeling. It was hollow, like seeing everything for what it really is. No fullness, no richness, just nothing. Even these words don’t accurately describe the sensation, but it was terrifying. From that point in it’s hard to buy into anything about happiness or light, they seem like untruths. 

40 minutes ago, StephenK said:

Sounds like your mind is filled with aversion to meaninglessness. If so, you've got work to do if you wish to be liberated of that aversion. Meaninglessness does not logically imply unpleasantness -- that is an inference made by your mind. If you're not experiencing aversion to meaninglessness however, then what is the problem?

I am afraid that isn’t the case. We can talk about meaninglessness as a “concept” but it’s something I experienced firsthand. It’s sheer emptiness that rebuts all attempts to lessen it, and it’s not a pleasant feeling. There is meaningless as a logical concept, and there’s the actual experience of it. It is no inference of the mind 

[StephenK]

2 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

I am afraid that isn’t the case. We can talk about meaninglessness as a “concept” but it’s something I experienced firsthand. It’s sheer emptiness that rebuts all attempts to lessen it, and it’s not a pleasant feeling. There is meaningless as a logical concept, and there’s the actual experience of it. It is no inference of the mind 

I'm afraid it is the case. If it's a feeling, then by definition it is a subjective experience superimposed upon a neutral idea called 'meaninglessness'. If you can't see this, then you're sadly completely under the illusion of not being able to differentiate between reality and your subjective experience of it.    

[Thanatos13]

Reality is our subjective experience of it. Objective reality is unknowable. 

Meaninglessness is not subjective though

[Ocean]

@Thanatos13 The more you reply, the more concrete your story becomes. 

Although it a place that one might find themselves, it’s not true, it’s just noise attempting to describe things as they currently are. 

Sometimes when we focus inward, we can get contracted and locked into ideas that are superimposed onto life.

Its common to drop things that were run my ego. In order to expand so to speak, annoy yourself and do things despite the pointlessness of it all. That way you’ll be testing who you really are in new ways from a new perspective, challenging everything.

[Thanatos13]

6 minutes ago, Ocean said:

@Thanatos13 The more you reply, the more concrete your story becomes. 

Although it a place that one might find themselves, it’s not true, it’s just noise attempting to describe things as they currently are. 

Sometimes when we focus inward, we can get contracted and locked into ideas that are superimposed onto life.

Its common to drop things that were run my ego. In order to expand so to speak, annoy yourself and do things despite the pointlessness of it all. That way you’ll be testing who you really are in new ways from a new perspective, challenging everything.

None of that really helps at all.

and how do you know it isnt true

[StephenK]

7 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

Reality is our subjective experience of it. Objective reality is unknowable. 

Meaninglessness is not subjective though

When you look at a 'red' rose, are you aware that it is not objectively red? Are you aware that to someone who is color blind, it is not red? That is, in order for rational dialogue to form, we need to separate our subjective experiences from the empirical evidence? Damn dude, I thought you were here on this forum as a skeptic haha.

[Ocean]

9 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

None of that really helps at all.

and how do you know it isnt true

Yep, all theory and no practice.

You want me to tell you how it’s true or not? Sorry, not how it works, that’s something that will always be on you. Asking others to solve this riddle on this thread is lazy.

its understandable though, go through it and see what’s at the other end. Or just stay in this story for a while till you get bored and start getting curious again.

[Thanatos13]

6 minutes ago, StephenK said:

When you look at a 'red' rose, are you aware that it is not objectively red? Are you aware that to someone who is color blind, it is not red? That is, in order for rational dialogue to form, we need to separate our subjective experiences from the empirical evidence? Damn dude, I thought you were here on this forum as a skeptic haha.

That entire statement doesn’t really make sense, and even scientists know that we “hallucinate” our reality. Subjective experience is all we have, agreeing on those “hallucinations” is what we call reality. 

But when it comes to meaning there is no empirical evidence. I am aware of the color and color blindness. But for the colorblind the empirical evidence is “not red”, and despite what others say they can’t prove that rose to be red if he can’t see red. But the senses are different from questions of meaning. 

None of this is helpful to someone who has no dreams or desires to pursue.

[Thanatos13]

14 minutes ago, Ocean said:

Yep, all theory and no practice.

You want me to tell you how it’s true or not? Sorry, not how it works, that’s something that will always be on you. Asking others to solve this riddle on this thread is lazy.

its understandable though, go through it and see what’s at the other end. Or just stay in this story for a while till you get bored and start getting curious again.

It sounds like intellectual sloth not to mention ignorance to tell someone to “figure it out”, especially since if they are asking it means they don’t know.

How it work is that if you say something isn’t true you need to say why, otherwise it’s just noise.

[StephenK]

Just now, Thanatos13 said:

That entire statement doesn’t really make sense, and even scientists know that we “hallucinate” our reality. Subjective experience is all we have, agreeing on those “hallucinations” is what we call reality. 

But when it comes to meaning there is no empirical evidence. I am aware of the color and color blindness. But for the colorblind the empirical evidence is “not red”, and despite what others say they can’t prove that rose to be red if he can’t see red. But the senses are different from questions of meaning. 

None of this is helpful to someone who has no dreams or desires to pursue.

No. For the colorblind, the empirical evidence that color is a subjective hallucination caused by the brain processing information from photons. If you can't simply see the difference between the truth of meaninglessness and the emotional reaction to that truth, then I can't help you bud. You're spinning stories to fit your narrative. As soon as a person tries to spin stories about why their 'feelings' are objective, I know they're bullshitting themselves.

[Thanatos13]

8 minutes ago, StephenK said:

No. For the colorblind, the empirical evidence that color is a subjective hallucination caused by the brain processing information from photons. If you can't simply see the difference between the truth of meaninglessness and the emotional reaction to that truth, then I can't help you bud. You're spinning stories to fit your narrative. As soon as a person tries to spin stories about why their 'feelings' are objective, I know they're bullshitting themselves.

It’s not really feelings. It’s more like the realization that everything we do has little significance and that there really isn’t any reason to do anything. It’s looking at reality as some mass machine that just acts, and despite people appearing different they are all cogs in it. The emotional reaction from that is objective. 

It’s like the experiments with telling people humans don’t have free will, every time it was met with negative outcomes 

[StephenK]

Just now, Thanatos13 said:

The emotional reaction from that is objective.

Bullshit. I guess when I feel that my dog is barking too loud, it is objectively annoying too? Anyone that disagrees with me on that must be wrong, huh? Your metaphysics and logical foundations are broken. Cheers

[Truth]

@Thanatos13 you gotta find a way to empty your cup otherwise anything anyone says is gonna go through one ear and out the other.

[Ocean]

20 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

It sounds like intellectual sloth not to mention ignorance to tell someone to “figure it out”, especially since if they are asking it means they don’t know.

How it work is that if you say something isn’t true you need to say why, otherwise it’s just noise.

Of course it is, it's intellectual sloth and noise all rolled into one. 

You want an intellectual escape route from where you're at. A random poster on the internet telling you, yep, been there done that, just get passed it - isn't really helpful. Practical application will always trump intellectual theory. 

You want dreams and desires, and you don't have them anymore. This created the conflict with your reality right now. Deal with it the same way you got to that place and see passed it. Using logic and honesty of what is. 

It sucks not having dreams and desires I get that, but they were never yours in the first place, it was just ego and maya's. You are who you are. 

As I said, the more you reply and reinforce this position, the more time it will take to unravel - which is always the case for any place within maya, the most comfortable place on earth. 

 

 

[Nahm]

@Thanatos13 You haven’t seen shit yet. That’s why you’re afraid. I know the void well. Don’t tell me about the void.? You did psychedelics, tasted the barrier / void. That’s huge, but you stopping working on yourself, because you think you saw the whole show. You did not. You’re not going to see beyond that void without doing the innerwork like the rest of us. Smart does not count for shit on this map. Let that go. Right does not count for shit either, it’s the very thing that prevents you. If you weren’t intellectualizing the hell out of things, I think you’d realize that the path has always been within. The work to be done, is clearing the path WITHIN. That thing you fuckin hate in your life.  -    pull your head outta your ass, put the rage against the machine on, and get it going. GET GOING. 

In other posts this would sound boastful, but I’ve been to the void many times in just the last year. I have been ‘beyond’ it. I know the territory you’re having trouble with. I’m trying to give a map. Take note, I am asking for nothing in return. No church to join, no charity to donate to, and I obviously don’t give a shit wether you think I’m “right” or not. LOL!  Think about that. What possible motive could I have??? Love is nothing to fear. Not if you’re going to get this done. 

You got out of Kansas, but you never made it to Oz, let alone, to see the wizard. There is SO much more. You can’t go to Oz with bags of shit. You do the work, the practices every day. You don’t slouch, you learn, every day. If you need to cry, then cry. If you need a punching bag go get one. But, get going dude. Our clocks are ticking.

[StephenK]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Thanatos13 You haven’t seen shit yet. That’s why you’re afraid. I know the void well. Don’t tell me about the void.? You did psychedelics, tasted the barrier / void. That’s huge, but you stopping working on yourself, because you think you saw the whole show. You did not. You’re not going to see beyond that void without doing the innerwork like the rest of us. Smart does not count for shit on this map. Let that go. Right does not count for shit either, it’s the very thing that prevents you. If you weren’t intellectual I Int the hell out of things, I think you’d realize that the path has always been within. The work to be done, is clearing the path WITHIN. That thing you fuckin hate in your life.  -    pull your head outta your ass, put the rage against the machine on, and get it going. GET GOING. 

In other posts this would sound boastful, but I’ve been to the void many times in just the last year. I have been ‘beyond’ it. I know the territory you’re having trouble with. I’m trying to give a map. Take note, I am asking for nothing in return. No church to join, no charity to donate to, and I obviously don’t give a shit wether you think I’m “right” or not. LOL!  Think about that. What possible motive could I have??? Love is nothing to fear. Not if you’re going to get this done. 

You got out of Kansas, but you never made it to Oz, let alone, to see the wizard. There is SO much more. You can’t go to Oz with bags of shit. You do the work, the practices every day. You don’t slouch, you learn, every day. If you need to cry, then cry. If you need a punching bag go get one. But, get going dude.

I agree. I think everyone who is engaging with Thanatos in this thread has had very real experiences of this mind-state we refer to as the 'void' or 'dark night'. For me it was brought on without the use of psychedelics. The biggest insight for me was that the experience of the void is just that: an experience. 

[Ocean]

@Thanatos13

So I fell back on something, which i'm now wanting to express. Not sure if helpful but always seem to make me smile. 

This thread, and all my replies all seem so serious. 

Simple question, whats funny about all this? If everything is meaningless, including your apparent predicament, what makes it funny and silly in the context of what you know?

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Ocean